Legal rights question

[Liljohn7575]

What is the name of your state? California.

I have a question about Parential Rights. I won't go into the why's and wherefores, however I am confused as to a Birth Fathers rights.

In an Legal action very uncommon (as I'm told) We have an Adoption over turned. A case filed against the Adopting Couple (Male and Female couple) by the Birth Mother only. The Birth Father was not involved nor was included in the case.
In the written findings (by the judge) the Adoption Decree is vacated/over turned and the Parential rights are restored to the mother. (by name)

NO mention of the Birth father or his legal rights are addressed in the Judges findings.

My question. Are the Birth Fathers rights still considered waived? (per the agreement sighed by both Birth Parents -- prior to the Adoption Decree being issued in the 1st place?)

I have been told that the Adoption Decree and all that followed are as they never happened. However, all acts prior are considered to be inforced.

This action took place in Two different Counties in the State of California. The Adoption and the Reversal in One county, the question of Legal rights of the Birth Father in the neighboring county.

Thank you for taking the time to read and hopefully reply to this issue.

Liljohn7575What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?

 

[fairisfair]

were the parental rights of the father ever terminated?

by a court?

Neither the adopting parents, nor the birth mother has the ability to terminate those rights, regardless of any agreement they might have had.

 

[Liljohn7575]

Thank you for your reply. In answer to your question, the Father and the Mother's rights were signed off prior to the Adoption Decree being granted. This was done at the state adoption agency, as just One of many requirements needed in the adoption process.

The pariental rights had to be removed (by a officer of the court) or the adoption could have never proceeded past that point.

I know better than to assume, but still -- I'm assuming the fathers rights were never restored and the Mothers were. As stated in the Judges findings.

Opinions?

 

[LdiJ]

Thank you for your reply. In answer to your question, the Father and the Mother's rights were signed off prior to the Adoption Decree being granted. This was done at the state adoption agency, as just One of many requirements needed in the adoption process.

The pariental rights had to be removed (by a officer of the court) or the adoption could have never proceeded past that point.

I know better than to assume, but still -- I'm assuming the fathers rights were never restored and the Mothers were. As stated in the Judges findings.

Opinions?

I am confused.....if the challenge to the adoption wasn't due to the biological father not being informed of the adoption, then what was the reason?

In any case, I agree, the judge reinstated mom's rights but not dad's...perhaps because dad did not participate in the case and ask that his rights be reinstated.

 

[nextwife]

I am confused.....if the challenge to the adoption wasn't due to the biological father not being informed of the adoption, then what was the reason?

In any case, I agree, the judge reinstated mom's rights but not dad's...perhaps because dad did not participate in the case and ask that his rights be reinstated.

Which raises an interesting question as to future CS or what happens if mom ever gets state aid. And whether the "adoptive parents" should be entitled to CS for the period they supported moms child. Certainly mom can't claim dad should pay for that period.

 

[Liljohn7575]

I am confused.....if the challenge to the adoption wasn't due to the biological father not being informed of the adoption, then what was the reason?

In any case, I agree, the judge reinstated mom's rights but not dad's...perhaps because dad did not participate in the case and ask that his rights be reinstated.

As the reacords are sealed, I can not offer a good reason, however I have my opinion as to why the adoption was challanged and overturned.

Needless to say, I can't help but wonder why these 3rd generation welfare types are allowed to play the system as they do. And yes, she has filed for support from the county/state and is trying to get almost 8 years of child support she says she is "owed"

 

[nextwife]

As the reacords are sealed, I can not offer a good reason, however I have my opinion as to why the adoption was challanged and overturned.

Needless to say, I can't help but wonder why these 3rd generation welfare types are allowed to play the system as they do. And yes, she has filed for support from the county/state and is trying to get almost 8 years of child support she says she is "owed"

Eight years from Dad? The dad whose child was adopted?

And the child was with the adoptive parents for how long before being taken away from them?

And who are you in this?

 

[Liljohn7575]

Which raises an interesting question as to future CS or what happens if mom ever gets state aid. And whether the "adoptive parents" should be entitled to CS for the period they supported moms child. Certainly mom can't claim dad should pay for that period.

You have hit the problem exactly. The Birth Mother has filed for support and currently a local DA's staff attorney is going to give his opinion. I fully expect the DA's office to lean in her direction and a court appearance is in the future. Sad as it may sound, the DA has a target and will not give up the fight quitely. Little matter what is right or legal for that matter.

Thank you for your replys.

 

[nextwife]

You have hit the problem exactly. The Birth Mother has filed for support and currently a local DA's staff attorney is going to give his opinion. I fully expect the DA's office to lean in her direction and a court appearance is in the future. Sad as it may sound, the DA has a target and will not give up the fight quitely. Little matter what is right or legal for that matter.

Thank you for your replys.

Did the judges ruling reinstate dad's parental rights? Or only mom's?

How long was the child out of mom's custody? How old is the child?

Wouldn't mom AND dad both owe CS for whatever period the child was in state/adoptive parent custody?

 

[Liljohn7575]

Eight years from Dad? The dad whose child was adopted?

And the child was with the adoptive parents for how long before being taken away from them?

And who are you in this?

Yes 8 years from the Dad.

The adoption was granted in 1997, overturned in 2000 and the child was returned to the Birth Mother sometime in 2003 (after she had completed the court ordered counseling ect ect)

Me? I'm the Birth Father in this matter. And please before you deceide to burn me at the stake, stand in my shoes if just for a short time. I have tried everything I was ALLOWED to do durning this period. In short I was forced to stay away from the whole mess by the Adopting parents. All attempts to see the child or to let the child know I was alive were refused or limits were place on me that made the visit most unconfortable. This is a whole different story, and I think not worth getting into.

This female is a work of art. It is totally madding to watch her pull the strings and ruin peoples lives as she moves from male to male.

 

[Liljohn7575]

Did the judges ruling reinstate dad's parental rights? Or only mom's?

How long was the child out of mom's custody? How old is the child?

Wouldn't mom AND dad both owe CS for whatever period the child was in state/adoptive parent custody?

Only the Birth Mothers rights were mentioned in the findings. (restored) NO mention of the Birth Father was made.

Believe it or not, the child (now 16) was NEVER out of the Birth Mothers custody. She lived with the couple who adopted the child. Now as to what part she played in the childs welfare or in the adoptive couples lives? I can't say. Those records are sealed. I do have my own opinion but since I have no proof, I will keep it to myself. I think this is the real reason the adoption was reversed though, something was not right in this home.

As I understand it, the child was not on state aid during this period of time.

Seems the more you know, the more twisted it becomes.

 

[LdiJ]

Please don't take this wrong....but if you start at the beginning and tell the whole story cronologically, you may get better help.

Right now, the way that info is coming out....the story seems almost unbelieveable.

 

[Liljohn7575]

Please don't take this wrong....but if you start at the beginning and tell the whole story cronologically, you may get better help.

Right now, the way that info is coming out....the story seems almost unbelieveable.

It does not make a pretty picture, but I will attempt to tell this story as I know it to be.

After having a child with a person I was not or never will be married to, the following occurred.

After a long drawn out AND very nasty court fight to determine the birth father, it seemed I was in court every other month fighting requests for more and more Child support. (And yes, I supplied every financial record that was requested) The mother of the child approached both my Attorney and myself and inquired as to my feelings toward the child being adopted. She was with a man I had seen her with many times during the court case and subsequent CS hearings. This happened (I believe) because I had filed for joint custody prior to the most recent CS hearing with the threat of asking for full custody a very real prospect.

I, to my discredit - jumped at the chance to be rid of her, agreed not to challenge the adoption. There was one catch, I had to pay for the adoption.

I was current with Child Support, owed no back support and borrowed enough money to pay for the adoption. This was in 1997. As we got deeper and deeper into the adoption process, I learned that the Adopting couple were -- the man I had seen her with in court and his wife. I had learned (from the Birth Mother) that At one time the Two of them had been a couple, (not married, but never less a couple) It now seemed that the man and his wife were interested in adopting the child. The Birth Mother was going to live with the couple while they raised the child. I found this to be very disgusting, BUT still saw it as my only chance to be rid of this female once and for all.

I was assured the child would be well cared for and his needs met. I was also promised the right to visit the child – by both the adopting couple and the Birth Mother.

The child was adopted through a State Agency and both the mother and my Parental rights were waived at the same time and place on the same day. I got a form letter from the adoption agency at the time of the signing that was to be taken to that County's DA, releasing me from any further legal action or Child support for the child. The mother went along (separate cars) to sign anything that required her signature.

Once the adoption was approved, thing's changed. I was informed I could see the child, but only under the condition - he was not to be told I was his father. I didn't find out until years later, all the cards and gifts sent to the child were tossed out. Now at this point I will admit, my desire to be as far away from these people far outweighed by desire to see the child. So that was the way it was.

Three years passed without any contact.

Then in 2000 I received a call from the Birth Mother. From the story she told, the adopting father was the second coming of the Devil. He had forced her to share a bed with him. He drank and beat her and the child. His wife knew but didn't care. Finally she took the child and fled to the home of her sister. It took all of a day or Two before CPS had her. She was charged with child stealing and put into jail. At this point she found out the only way she could walk on the child theft charges was to challenge the adoption and have it set aside.

I attended the proceeding, just to hear the truth if nothing else. The story that unfolded on the stand was unbelievable. After about 4 hours of hearing from both the plaintiff and respondent, the judge lost his cool. He stopped the proceeding on the spot, called all parties and their Lawyers into chambers and started to chew some serious butt. I don't remember his exact words, but he was totally disgusted with both the Birth Mother and the Adoption Parents.

The Adoption was finally overturned, and almost 2 and a half years later the child was returned to his mother. The judge refused to return the child to the mother until after she had completed many different programs. Exactly what they were, I don't have a clue. (nor do I really care)

The Mother of the child re married and all seemed well, until she had went threw his money and now needed a new source. She filed for divorce (one of those legal aid type) had the papers for over a year before she had him served.

Now the DA is wanting a new set of financial from me, and I must assume the worse. She will go for as much as she can. (back support) I have tried to tell this story to the local Child Support worker, in hopes she will see it for what it really is. Her response – I will send all of this up to legal and let them make the decision. Now I am currently waiting for a call from some staff attorney – which will - I'm sure – want to continue the case. After all, they have a target, not a deadbeat.

I have a copy of the judge's findings, overturning the adoption and restoring HER rights.

I do not have a copy of the actual reversal and actions that leading up to it. (sealed and I have to get a lawyer to open them)

I know this story is hard to read and even harder believe, but sadly it is quite true.

 

[nextwife]

Do you have a copy of the letter from CSE stating the case was being CLOSED due to adoption? Provide that to the agency now requesting CS, and request a copy of whatever court order they claim restored YOUR parental rights. And insist that your rights were terminated by the court due to adoption and you have no knowledge that your paternity was ever restored.