stop harassment from biological

[2new3old]

From STL Missouri. My husband and i have adopted 2 children from the foster care system. Former foster family has kept in contact with biological dad and has been passing information to BD. He has been calling and harassing and sometimes threatening (veiled with the appropriate words so as to not be a legal threat) us if we do not let him talk to the children. We get calls in waves of 2-3 with messages (left on husbands cell phone because of the restraining order dealing with the children). He will do this near most holidays and birthdays. He has also called husbands work and bosses. (information made available to BD from former foster family) I have talked to many people and this seems to be a no-mans-land issue because we have adopted and he no longer has rights. We have not found anyone who considers this to be harassment and he seems to stay just within the letter of the law and we do not seem to have valid evidence for a complaint. What can we do to get him to stop calling legally?

He did not attend any of the quarterly hearings for parental rights for the four years of foster care. He did not contest the adoption.

[momofrose]

I am sorry you are going through this. How does former foster family have so much information on you?

This should be fairly simple - change all landline and cell phone numbers...

D

[TheGeekess]

Change the cell phone number. Get caller ID or have the receptionist screen the calls and send them directly to voice mail. Eventually, he'll get a new hobby. Tell the former foster family to pound sand. You don't have to keep them appraised of anything.

[2new3old]

We cannot change phone numbers due to nature of husbands job so number is available to anyone. Former Foster family is still in business circle and cannot be removed from our lives without a complete disruption to everything so hiding from BD is currently impossible. We are looking for other options to stop him. We do not want to hide away from the world, we just want to tell him to stop and have a means to legally stop him. Have restraining order for the children because of comments he made about walking away with them any time he wanted to. He no longer calls the house or the school. We were told we could not get one on him to stop the calling because not enough of a physical threat to us. We are looking for any other options or methods we could use. Any LEGAL methods. We are looking for suggestions that other people may have used to reduce the frustration and communication.

Forgot to add. Former FF thinks BD was just misunderstood by the court system and just can't get a break and he deserves to have a relationship with our 2new children. Problem is BD is con artist and can be very threatening and did not lift a finger to help children when all HE!! broke loose in their lives. He walked away from them and only returned when they were in the hands of the state and he no longer had to pay to support them. He enjoyed the supervised visits with meals paid for by FFF once every 2 weeks for an hour at a time. All of the professionals involved with the children strongly suggest that he not be allowed any communication with the children and we concur. We have limited FFF's access to the children and we have notices with the school to not allow FFF to buy yearbooks or pickup news letters from school. We know that they are still in contact with BD and they still have dinners together which goes against the foster parenting directions from the state. We have tried to talk to the state about this but because the adoption is final they consider the file closed and can not offer any help. If we were fostering them it would be another story.

[OldandTired]

Just the mere presence of harassment is cause to get a Restraining Order. You are being harassed. There are legal remedies to stop harassment.

[momofrose]

No one said to hide from the world. I am not understanding why you can not tell the foster family to please not divulge any further personal information. Sounds to me like the only viable options you have are being dismissed by you (change your phone number and speak with the foster family) - being that you can not get a restraining order..why can't you just not answer the phone???

[2new3old]

We have had numerous run-ins with the FFF and no resolution. They believe that BF is misunderstood and if we won’t communicate with BF then they will. They have taken pictures at school functions and sent them. They have sent year books and school newsletters and sports information about the teams that they are on. We have had the school limit their access to the publication and they are restricted access to the school when the children are present. Each time BF gets information the calls start up again.


We have talked to atty that we used for the RO for the children and we were unable to have it modified to include our cell phones because it was written for the children. I may not be using the right language. We were told that we needed to get a separate RO for ourselves and that there was no evidence of a threat and that the frequency of the phone calls did not constitute harassment. When he calls if we do not answer he will leave messages with a sad loving tone that will say things like “I will never stop loving my kids and they are all that I have in this world. I will never stop loving them and I hope that someday you will let me at least talk to them.” If we pick up the calls he will have a very angry threatening tone and he will say things like, “I will not stop until I get to talk to MY children. There is nothing you can do to keep me from my children and someday you will not be able to stop me from talking to them or seeing them!” We do not have these conversations recorded and they are on the cell phone and I don’t want to get into and legal issues with recording phone conversations anyway.

Oh, I do ramble. This is a three year story and I guess I am looking for legal means to get a protective order for my husband and myself without adequate evidence of threats or harassment. We have tried both approaches and were told that what he is doing does not cross the line to harassment and we do not have any evidence of him threatening us. I was hoping to approach this from a family law aspect and see if there was any recourse as if we were dealing with an ex spouse. We have tried through channels that would apply to a person outside the family and there does not seem to be enough for anyone to take this on. Will approaching this from a family law side give us any different options?

This is a closed adoption state but unfortunately he has all the information he needs to be a frustration for us. We tried to talk to the state but as far as they are concerned the children’s files are closed and they will not be able to help us with BF. It is now a personal matter between us and him.

[OldandTired]

Visit your local Radio Shack store and purchase the suction cup microphone, stick it to the back of the phone, and answer it the next time he calls. Record the conversation. Save the conversation. Submit the Restraining Order for yourselves. Play the tape containing the threatening and harassing content for the Judge. Receive Restraining Order. Serve him with this Restraining Order. Give a copy to the FFF. Live life.

Missouri

An individual who is a party to a wire communication, or who has the consent of one of the parties to the communication, can lawfully record it or disclose its contents, unless the person is intercepting the communication for the purpose of committing a criminal or tortious act. Mo. Rev. Stat. § 542.402. Recording or disclosing the contents of a wire communication by all other persons is a felony.

Anyone whose communications have been recorded or disclosed in violation of the law can bring a civil suit to recover the greater of actual damages, $100 a day for each day of violation or $1,000, and can recover punitive damages, attorney fees and litigation costs as well. Mo. Rev. Stat. § 542.418.

[2new3old]

I am a bit unsure about filing a RO by myself. We needed help with the one for the children so that we covered all bases where he might be able to contact them. How difficult is it to file and what would we need to include? A second concern for me is, are we covering all of the bases with the RO?

As a second issue, what can we do to prevent FFF from communication with BF about the children?

[momofrose]

Originally Posted by 2new3old

I am a bit unsure about filing a RO by myself. We needed help with the one for the children so that we covered all bases where he might be able to contact them. How difficult is it to file and what would we need to include? A second concern for me is, are we covering all of the bases with the RO?


Ypu go to your local police station and ask for an application for an RO (you will need to give them a reason) - you then get a court date and the judge will decide if there is enpugh evidence to issue an RO

As a second issue, what can we do to prevent FFF from communication with BF about the children?

NOTHING - you already said you can not break ties (due to business reasons) - you can not control them - you have to take control of your own situation - but you keep making excuses (can't change your cell phone number, can't speak with the FFF ---again because of business)...not sure what you want anyone to do here if you are unwilling to do things for yourself

[2new3old]

Not excuses facts!

Changing numbers would be of no help because numbers are publicly available. BF would have same access to new cell numbers. We have done many things to protect our children from both the BF and the FFF.

Now if you would read the post you would see that we have and do speak with the FFF. We HAVE done many things to restrict the FFF’s and BF access to the children as stated in post. I am looking for any legal means to reduce communication of information about my children to BF by FFF. And to reduce the ability of BF to contact us. He cannot contact the children directly. The children were in the FC system for four years and are having issues dealing with abandonment and abuse. The older of the 2 is now finally getting to the point that he/she (gender unspecific on purpose) feels safe in our house. Our home is the longest they have spent in any family or home including BF. In FC there were 12 different homes over the 4 years that they can remember and there may have been more. We were aware of possibly 13 from the paperwork but it may have only been 12. My children did not live with BF for as long as they have lived with us. There were many problems that we are dealing with and ALL of the counselors (more than one for more than one issue) agree that any communication with BF would be harmful to them.

So momofrose you do not know how much we have done and what lengths we have gone to to protect our children from the adults in their past that have done irreparable damage to them. At this point the children are in no danger but I am looking at trying to legally reduce any communication from BF and any information BF is given about my children. FYI BF’s parental rights were justifiably terminated by courts and we have legally adopted his former children and they are mine as if I gave birth to them. So please read the post and don’t assume you know even 1% of what we have done both physically and financially for our children.

I am looking for any other legal method or loop hole within my power that will reduce or neutralize the BF’s access to information about my family. And momofrose having my husband quit his job so that he will no longer carry a cell phone does not seem to be a reasonable choice.

To TheGeekess, husband does screen cell phone calls but problem is BF does not always call from same phone much less area code, so many times husband takes calls because it is from unrecognized number. The number is saved and as of now we have 10 or 11 numbers saved. Problem is BF does not stay in one place long enough to use the phone more than 3 or 4 times. Calls will also be from varying area codes. BF stayed in one area code for 12 months so husband let all calls from suspect area code go to voice mail. Unfortunately last call 2 weeks ago was from new area code again and what has me a little concerned it is adjacent to our AC but that is a separate worry. Also no receptionist to screen calls although I hope eventually he will have one but with this economy it may take longer.

To OldandTired, Do we need to have the “threatening tone” conversations recorded to get a RO that would include husbands cell? Well, with the holiday coming up I’m sure we will be hearing more from BF. I’m not a tech geek so is this suction cup mic intended to record cell conversations and does it have a specific recorder that would have to be carried around with the phone? How difficult is it to file a RO without legal help? All of the other legal issues with the children have been handled with lawyer but that lawyer stated we did not have appropriate grounds for RO for ourselves which would include husband’s cell.

[momofrose]

cell phone numbers are NOT (yet) publicly available - and home numbers can be unlisted.

I really see nothing you can do - the fff can speak to whomever they want about anything they want - you can not dictate to them what they can and can not say.

I already said to get the fff out of your business, but you say that 's impossible because of your husband's business - then I guess you'll just have to deal with it.

I am an adoptive mother myself - I know what it means - you need not spell it out.

Go to your local police station and ask for an application for an RO - fill it out - you will be given a court date and show up for court stating the reasons you need an RO - pretty simple.

I have to say you really come up with loads of excuses...and this is my last post - People that don't help themselves, can not be helped.

[OldandTired]

Originally Posted by 2new3old

I am looking for any legal means to reduce communication of information about my children to BF by FFF. And to reduce the ability of BF to contact us.

First of all, The RO will cover all of this. He would be prohibited from contacting you, and the FFF would be prohibited from passing information to him, so long as you enjoin them and can prove that this passing of information to him is connected to the harassament.

Originally Posted by 2new3old

Do we need to have the “threatening tone” conversations recorded to get a RO that would include husbands cell?

Not at all. Just the mere speaking of the words with the Disneyland Main Street Electrical Light Parade music playing in the background would establish threatening and harassing communication.

Originally Posted by 2new3old

I’m not a tech geek so is this suction cup mic intended to record cell conversations and does it have a specific recorder that would have to be carried around with the phone?

The mic, once attached to the back of the portion of the phone where you listen from, will pick all sounds traveling through the phone. Your voice and his. It's best to sit still and have the recorder plugged into an outlet, as you don't want the recorder to stop due to failed batteries. Get 60-120 min tapes. Depends on how long you want to keep him on the phone.

Originally Posted by 2new3old

How difficult is it to file a RO without legal help? All of the other legal issues with the children have been handled with lawyer but that lawyer stated we did not have appropriate grounds for RO for ourselves which would include husband’s cell.

Some states have a standardized form that you could use as a guideline. You would of course have to enter the information that is applicable to your situation. You would have to take it to the Court Clerk, they will assign a case number to it. The father would then need to be served citation that a civil action is now pending before the Court. He will be given time to file an answer to that Petition for Order of Protection (Missouri's terminology). You will both have to appear in Court on the date set by the Court. You will have your opportunity to give just cause as to why the Judge should enter your Petition as an Order. If he fails to appear to give testimony as to why the OOP should not be granted, you should be ok. If it is granted, he MUST be served a copy of it before he can be held accountable to it (Not applicable if he is present in the Courtroom at the time the Judge enters it as an Order).

There are still no guarantees that the Judge will do this. Do not be disappointed should the Judge decline. You will, at the very least, have a public court record that action was attempted once before to stop this, should it continue past this, or get worse.

Go to this website: [url=http://www.courts.mo.gov/page.asp?id=587]Legal Resources[/url] , and educate yourself. Learn the Rules of the Court! This cannot be stressed enough. Judges do not like to have their time wasted by people that are not familiar with the law and the rules of the Court. This is rather involved for a first-timer. This is not for you if you are timid, or easily intimidated. There is a lot to learn if you expect to prevail. As long as you have prepared yourself properly, you should have no problems. No one, at any time, will give you legal advice that is connected to that Courthouse. Everything you need to learn is on that website up there.

I wish you luck.

[2new3old]

Maybe this is not the right forum but I have been looking into all my other options that are obvious to me. We have talked to lawyers and I just want to make sure that there is nothing else legally that we can do to restrict BF and possibly FFF. Of the suggestions posted, we have at one time or another considered all of them before I posted. We have acted on the ones that were viable for us. Others were dead ends and in the end would not restrict BF's ability to contact us. I was hoping for some insight as to how others who have adopted have gotten the terminated Biologicals out of the loop (without going into the witness protection program) (said with sarcasm). Again if the children were still in FC in our house we would have more recourse to prevent him from contacting ANY of the family. As soon as the adoption was final the state no longer offered any protection from BF and they consider it a personal dispute. There has to be someone who has had experience with disgruntled Biologicals interfering with the adoptive family. What other legal means (not personal) can I pursue against BF or FFF? Again I do not want to regurgitate all of the details

From the suggestions I will be attempting to file a RO for the entire family against the BF so I do not need that suggestion again.

OldandTired, I was posting this at the same time sorry. Another question (iritating I know) why might the other lawyer not want to help with the new RO that included husband and me?

[2new3old]

Momofrose, after re reading your message and my response i want to apologize for my snipping at you. I can only say I have been slightly stressed and you did not deserve my ire, again I am sorry!