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we would like to adopt but...

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abadda

Guest
What is the name of your state? Florida

There are 2 children in our church who need a home. the mother is in prison, the father doesn't want them and the grandmother who takes care of them is near death. what do we need to do and consider to adopt them? we have just declared bankrupt so will this be a problem or is there a way around that?
 


ellencee

Senior Member
abadda
The bankruptcy could be a problem if it indicates that you are a) not financially responsible, or b) do not have the necessary resources to add two family members to your household, or c) it is a chapter 13 bankruptcy and the trustee won't allow you take on the costs of the adoption or increased expenses and remain under bankruptcy protection.

You could take these children into your home without adopting them, at first, if the parents agree and the bankruptcy doesn't prevent it.

Who has custody? Are there family members who may appear to claim the children after the death of their grandmother? Will the mother be released from prison in the near future and have a claim to her children? I guess I am asking if adoption by nonfamily members is the only option for these children.

If you do take these children into your home, please allow them to go through the death of their grandmother without being completely removed from her life ahead of time. The children will need to go through this loss in as much of a normal manner as is possible.

Here's another thought; would the church be willing to pay for the any and all legal fees? Surely, it would qualify as a worthwhile cause.

EC
 
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abadda

Guest
the grandmother has said that the mother doesn't want anything to do with them but that is something i will check up on. they have been in foster care temporarily due to the illness of the grandmother. i don't really want fl.'s dcf interfering due to how they have handled other cases in florida. they either overact or don't act until someone dies. i know that isn't how all social workers are but it seems scary to let them into our family. i also want the kids to feel like a part of our family w/out the monthly reminder that theyare adopted. the grandmother is a lovely person and i would allow them to visit her as often as they would like. i think it would just give her peace to know that they would be in a good home and not split up. i am wondering if she could put them in her will to us? i know that we have it stated where our children should go to live in the event of our death. what do you think? i know the church would help in anyway that was needed to see the children in a good home. is there anyway to keep the bankruptcy out of this? thanks:)
 

ellencee

Senior Member
If an attorney goes to your church, or if someone in the church is related to or knows an attorney closely, maybe that attorney would do everything that needs to be done and you can keep DSS and the 'system' from being a problem.

You can call the Florida Lawyer's Bar, or however it is named, and ask for a list of attorneys (in your area) that have not completed their required pro bono hours this year. Then, find one of those attorneys to help you with this matter.

Does the grandmother have full and complete custody? If so, she could go ahead and give you and your husband full and complete custody and the adoption could be completed later when your financial status will bear up under scrutiny. I don't think she can 'will' them to you. I think the children will become 'wards of the state' after the grandmother dies, unless the father takes them. I think that legally, it will be the father who gains automatic custody when the grandmother dies.

The mother is an issue on which I have more concern than the children's father. There is such a big issue about preserving incarcerated mothers' rights to their children, I see this potentially being an obstacle.

I know that catastrophic events can force a person into bankruptcy and so can financial mismanagement. Please keep your reasons private, but give some thought to whether or not you can financially afford two children until they reach the age of 18 or complete college. (Ha! Like children quite costing you money, then!)

There is a similar situation going on in my sister's church, here in NC. The grandmother is dying and she has custody of two children, a girl and a boy. My sister has considered adopting these children. I'll ask her what she has learned as regards adoption of these children. Maybe she will have some information that will be of assistance to you.
 
A

abadda

Guest
I have found out a little more info about the family this evening. the mother didn't want anything to do with them before she was sent away and still has not tried to talk to them. i realize that maybe prison will change her and if so then great, i would want her to have her kids. the father is just out of prison and has been told that if he would submit to a drug test he could have them but he doesn't want to do that. the grandma does have custody as far as i can tell. i am going to call her tomorrow and offer to watch the children while she goes into the hospital to have some kind of drip implanted into her back to ease the pain. she has inoperable lung cancer. i understand the bankruptcy thing but it was catostrophic nothing else. when all is said and done, i know that our church would pull together and support the children financially if we would only take them in. we have an awesome church family! the pro bono lawyer idea sounds interesting. i will check into that. there is alot of factors that need to be addressed but i am worried that time will run out for the grandmother before we can get them settled into a family. it is so sad to hear the little boy tell about how his mom doesn't want him. they are the age of two of my children so there is some concern there too. thanks for your help. i will keep you posted.
 
H

hexeliebe

Guest
Poster;

At this point, while there are so many variables that you just don't or can't know yet, Legal Guardianship might be a better and less trying alternative.
 
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abadda

Guest
what is legal guardianship? does this mean they could be taken from our home at anytime? is it taken care of through children services or privately?
 
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hexeliebe

Guest
Yes, that's one of the drawbacks to being a guardian. But if you provide a loving and secure home, it's highly unlikely.

The problem you're going to run up against is getting both the mother and father to relinquish parental rights then getting the court to allow an out-of-family adoption should there be someone other than the grandmother who steps up and wants the children.

Guardianship can last a few days or until majority. And any time during the process you can petition for adoption if all the other elements like the relinquishment of parental rights becomes a reality.
 
A

abadda

Guest
i talked to the grandmother today. she has full custody of the little girl. the girl has lived with her for 3 years and the judge has given her legal custody. the little boy has been in 6 foster homes and when the grandma found out she went to court and got him. she did say that his mother has until the end of august to make a petition to keep him but she hasn't done so yet and the grandma is pretty sure she won't. then the grandma will have full custody of him too. the father has never been around since birth and wants nothing to do and has not protested the custody. the grandma has agreed to let me watch them while she is in the hospital and of course we haven't talked about anything permanant. she said that social services will run a background check on me and my husband but that is ok, we have nothing to hide. so that is where we are for now. if she has custody of the children and wants to allow us to adopt them when she can't handle them, can we do it outside of the "system" or do they still have say in things after she obtains custody? can she just give them to us? is that legal? thanks for your help!
 

ellencee

Senior Member
You should be able to handle it as a private adoption and only have to follow the laws that pertain to adoption, not the DSS 'system' of adoption.

Do a search for Florida's adoption laws. I'll do the same. Meet me back here with what you find out!
 

ellencee

Senior Member
http://www.flabar.org/newflabar/consumerservices/general/callalaw/CAL1083.html

ADOPTING A CHILD INDEPENDENTLY


An independent adoption is the adoption of a child without the need for utilizing the services of a licensed child placement agency or the Department of Children and Families. A home can be found for the child by the birth parent or parents directly or through the use of an intermediary. An intermediary in the State of Florida is an attorney or physician who is licensed or authorized to practice in the State of Florida. However, no child may be placed directly by a birth parent to an adoptive couple without the use of an intermediary.

The adoptive parent or parents usually employ an attorney to represent them. The birth parent or parents may also wish to consult an attorney. It is a third degree felony in the State of Florida for anyone other than a licensed child placement agency, an intermediary, or the Department of Children and Families to place a child for adoption within the State of Florida.

Only a licensed child placing agency or the Department of Children and Families may place a child born in Florida to an adoptive parent outside of the State of Florida.

The identities of the parties involved in adoption are normally kept confidential. However, many times the birth parent or parents and the adoptive couple agree to an "open adoption." Such a procedure allows the adoptive couple and the birth parent or parents to have direct contact and share certain information. While open agreements are recognized as a practical matter, open adoption agreements are not enforceable.

If an intermediary is used, he or she is required to file with the court prior to birth, a statement regarding the terms of any placement, whether or not there will be any financial reimbursements to the birth parent or parents, whether the adoptive couple has received a preliminary approval by a licensed professional or agency, and whether the prospective adoptive couple has a clear criminal and abuse registry clearance. An interview with the birth parents is required prior to placement. This interview must be conducted by an agency or licensed professional.

The birth parent or parents are required to submit their medical and personal histories. This also includes any documentation regarding their present or past marital status. The adoptive parent or parents are also required to submit medical and personal histories as well as personal references, marriage certificate and divorce records, if applicable.

For a child to be available for adoption, the consent of the birth mother must always be obtained. It is also necessary to have a consent from the birth father if the child was conceived while the birth father was married to the birth mother, supported her financially in a repetitive customary manner, the father has acknowledged in writing he is the father of the child, the child is his child by adoption, or if paternity of the child was established in a separate court proceeding. If the birth father does not fit into any one of the above categories, then his consent may not be required and may be excused by the court. It is always the best practice however to obtain the consent of the birth father to avoid any discrepancy in any information which may have been provided by the birth mother. When in doubt, it is best practice to obtain from the court an order waiving the father's consent by reason of abandonment or other statutory criteria.

The official consent form for an adoption can only be signed by the birth parent or parents after the child is born. Any consent signed prior to the birth of the child is invalid. Any consent signed by a birth parent becomes irrevocable when signed and may not be set aside unless a court of competent jurisdiction finds that the consent was entered into under fraud or duress. In order for a consent for adoption to be valid, the consent must be signed and witnessed by two separate individuals and notarized. The notary may also be a witness.

In the State of Florida, a consent given by a minor birth parent is valid. However, care should be taken that the minor birth parent has had a sufficient opportunity to explore his or her decision. Counseling should be offered in all cases but especially when the birth parent is a minor. If the child to be adopted is more than 12 years of age, he or she must also consent to the adoption.

If the child to be adopted is six months of age or older, and has been living with a grandparent, then that grandparent must be given notice of any pending adoption. Additionally, in the circumstances where the child to be adopted has lived with a grandparent for a period of six months, the grandparents as a matter of law, must be given first priority to adopt the child should they so desire. However, this does not apply if the adoption is a result of the death of the child's parent and a different preference is stated in the parent's will.

Certain expenses are properly payable by an adoptive couple to a birth parent. These expenses include doctor, hospital, and prescription bills, housing, food, clothing, and other ordinary and necessary expenses. Any agreements regarding the payment of such expenses should be in writing. Payments or promise to pay the birth mother for the transfer of the child is illegal. However, the payment of reasonable medical and living expenses including counseling expenses are legal. If the birth parent does not consent to the adoption after the child's birth, any expenses paid in advance may not be recoverable. All expenses, including attorney's fees and intermediary fees paid by the adoptive parent or parents must be reported to the court for approval.

As long as the adoptive couple has an approved home study by an agency or licensed professional, the child can be placed directly into the home by the intermediary upon release of the child from the hospital and after the signing of the appropriate consents by the birth parents. This process normally occurs between two and four days following birth. Once a placement is made into the home of the adoptive parent or parents, a supervisory period of ninety days is required under Florida law. During this time, the agency or licensed professional has an opportunity to monitor the child's care and progress in the home of the adoptive parent or parents. A Petition for Adoption can be filed at any time after the placement. However, a Final Judgment of Adoption cannot be entered until after the ninety day period has expired and after the agency or professional has filed a final recommendation approving the placement with the adoptive parent or parents.

Once a Final Judgment of Adoption has been entered, it cannot be set aside unless a procedural defect or irregularity occurred and the Final Judgment is appealed within one year of the entry of the Final Judgment. An example of a procedural defect would be a failure to give appropriate notice to a birth father or grandparent.

If you decide to look into the possibility of an independent adoption, you should consult an attorney who specializes in adoption to make certain that you understand all aspects of the adoption process. The birth parent or parents have been known to change their minds even after the consent for adoption has been given. Unnecessary court battles have been fought over custody of a child being adopted as well as over the financial loss sustained by the adoptive parent or parents.

In any adoption, for your protection and for the protection of the minor child, it is most important to have proper legal representation. An attorney cannot represent the birth parent(s) and the adoptive parent(s). Every party to an adoption must be independently represented.

If you believe you need legal advice, please call your attorney. If you do not have an attorney, call The Florida Bar Lawyer Referral Service at 1-800-342-8011, or the local lawyer referral service or legal aid office listed in the yellow pages of your telephone book.


(updated 3/27/97)
 
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abadda

Guest
thank you for your help! that definitely answers my questions!:) ithink for now we will take care of them while she is in the hospital and hopefully make a good connection with her and the children. at least now i have some idea where to start.:)
 

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