X may want adopted son back

[momofanglesx3]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? VA

This is a long story but I will try to shorten. My exhusband left me with our 2 yr old daughter and 3 months preg. with a second child. When my son was born ex said he did not want him so he signed away his rights. I remarried and my husband adopted my son. My ex still gets our daughter every other weekend. I recently found out that my ex has somehow gotten photos of my son and has them framed in his home. When I asked him about this he said "He is my son and I can do what I want". Is there anything that can be done about that? Also he has told me he is going to get the adoption reversed. Can that be done?

The only father my son has ever known is his adoptive father. My son is now 5 year old..so its been 5 years since the adoption took place. Thanks for any help you may can give me.

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by momofanglesx3

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? VA

This is a long story but I will try to shorten. My exhusband left me with our 2 yr old daughter and 3 months preg. with a second child. When my son was born ex said he did not want him so he signed away his rights. I remarried and my husband adopted my son. My ex still gets our daughter every other weekend. I recently found out that my ex has somehow gotten photos of my son and has them framed in his home. When I asked him about this he said "He is my son and I can do what I want". Is there anything that can be done about that? Also he has told me he is going to get the adoption reversed. Can that be done?

The only father my son has ever known is his adoptive father. My son is now 5 year old..so its been 5 years since the adoption took place. Thanks for any help you may can give me.

1) Why do you care what pictures he has hanging at his house?

2) Nobody here can tell you whether he has a shot at reversing the adoption. It's very unlikely, but not impossible. You need to see an attorney.

[TheGeekess]

I want to know how Mom got Ex to "sign away his rights" without being married to someone else at that time who was willing to adopt.
That's about impossible.

[momofanglesx3]

I care about the photos because my son does not know that he is adopted. I know the photos are there because my daughter wanted to know why her dad has pictures of one of her brothers in his house but not her other brother. My children are really too young to understand what happened. They are 2,5, and 7. I am trying to protect my children from something that could hurt them. I am not worried that my 5 yo will really care who is biological father is. He knows who his daddy is. I am concerned that my daughter will be hurt if he tells her about it. She loves her father and thinks he is PERFECT. I'm not sure why he would want her to know that he walked out on us but it would certainly hurt her to know it. He left when she was 2 and didn't return until she was 4 1/2. She is 7 now and doesn't remember much about his absence (other than he was living in Ga and she seems to think Ga is where people go and stay for a long, long time). When he returned I started letting him get her only during days on weekends because she had no idea who he was. They have built up to now every other weekend and she adores him. I have sole legal and physical custody of her as well. He was given no visitation rights at all to her. He still has no legal visitation, not saying that the court wouldnt give him rights if he asked for them..he has just never asked via court. Well not since he returned. We did have a huge custody thing back when it happened though. That is when I was given the sole rights.

As far as seeing an attorney about him reversing the adoption. I did and he told me that there shouldn't be any way he could reverse it. It was all done legal. It just tends to worry me when the ex starts saying he has an attorney that says he can get it reversed.

[Blue Meanie]

Originally Posted by momofanglesx3

I care about the photos because my son does not know that he is adopted. .

Well! That is a huge problem YOU CREATED! You lied to your child. Shame on you!!

[Silverplum]

Originally Posted by momofanglesx3

I care about the photos because my son does not know that he is adopted. I know the photos are there because my daughter wanted to know why her dad has pictures of one of her brothers in his house but not her other brother. My children are really too young to understand what happened. They are 2,5, and 7. I am trying to protect my children from something that could hurt them. I am not worried that my 5 yo will really care who is biological father is. He knows who his daddy is. I am concerned that my daughter will be hurt if he tells her about it. She loves her father and thinks he is PERFECT. I'm not sure why he would want her to know that he walked out on us but it would certainly hurt her to know it. He left when she was 2 and didn't return until she was 4 1/2. She is 7 now and doesn't remember much about his absence (other than he was living in Ga and she seems to think Ga is where people go and stay for a long, long time). When he returned I started letting him get her only during days on weekends because she had no idea who he was. They have built up to now every other weekend and she adores him. I have sole legal and physical custody of her as well. He was given no visitation rights at all to her. He still has no legal visitation, not saying that the court wouldnt give him rights if he asked for them..he has just never asked via court. Well not since he returned. We did have a huge custody thing back when it happened though. That is when I was given the sole rights.

As far as seeing an attorney about him reversing the adoption. I did and he told me that there shouldn't be any way he could reverse it. It was all done legal. It just tends to worry me when the ex starts saying he has an attorney that says he can get it reversed.

He left YOU.

He didn't "leave" HER. Obviously, he's being her Dad NOW. He has a great relationship with her.

Get over it. Be a PARENT, for God's sake.

She already KNOWS that you aren't a couple. There is NO NEED for her to know MORE. Unless your bitterness knows NO bounds...then it's on you. You will be guilty.

Grow up.

[momofanglesx3]

Originally Posted by TheGeekess

I want to know how Mom got Ex to "sign away his rights" without being married to someone else at that time who was willing to adopt.
That's about impossible.

That is a bit messy. He did not want me to have the child so he tried to terminate my pregnancy for me. I was in the hospital for a couple of weeks and almost miscarried. He is my miracle baby!!! :-) Anyway, papers were filed immediately reguarding the custody of the unborn child. (This was done by the police department, not myself). Before my son was even born everything was in order for ex to go before the judge. Ex gave an hour and a half speech as to why he did not want the child. In the end, the judge ruled that I be the sole parent of my child. The judge said that any person that could speak that way about an innocent child did not deserve to be called a father - biological or otherwise.

Honestly, it was just horrible! I hated every moment of it.

[momofanglesx3]

Originally Posted by Silverplum

He left YOU.

He didn't "leave" HER. Obviously, he's being her Dad NOW. He has a great relationship with her.

Get over it. Be a PARENT, for God's sake.

She already KNOWS that you aren't a couple. There is NO NEED for her to know MORE. Unless your bitterness knows NO bounds...then it's on you. You will be guilty.

Grow up.

He did leave HER. He went to work one morning and never came home again. He had no contact with her for 2 1/2 years. I only saw him twice in that two years. (once when he tried to kill me and the other in court). Yes she loves her father now but it is far from "great relationship". He has supervised visitations with her because the court will not allow him to be alone with her. I have put my own steps in place though so that she is not affected by this. The officers who oversees the visitation are know to her as friends not as officers.

I was not implying that I would tell her any of it. I have worked very hard to keep the bad side of the truth from my children. I am afraid he will tell her.

I do try very hard to be a good parent. I must be telling what is going on horribly bad for you all to think so badly of me. I have never had such hatred projected at me for what happened. I was just looking for a little advice..WoW I dont get anything useful here just bashing of me. I am unimportant in this entire situation.

[Silverplum]

Originally Posted by momofanglesx3

He did leave HER. He went to work one morning and never came home again. He had no contact with her for 2 1/2 years.

She doesn't remember what happened. And, truthfully, what happened was between you and Dad. No one else.
Be a parent.

Originally Posted by momofanglesx3

I only saw him twice in that two years. (once when he tried to kill me and the other in court). Yes she loves her father now but it is far from "great relationship". He has supervised visitations with her because the court will not allow him to be alone with her. I have put my own steps in place though so that she is not affected by this. The officers who oversees the visitation are know to her as friends not as officers.

That contradicts your earlier post, but whatever. I'm not going to bother.

Originally Posted by momofanglesx3

I was not implying that I would tell her any of it.

Funny, that's the impression I got from your post.

Originally Posted by momofanglesx3

I have worked very hard to keep the bad side of the truth from my children. I am afraid he will tell her.

Then he does.
And he lives with the consequences.
You can't control what he does.
Be a parent.

Originally Posted by momofanglesx3

I do try very hard to be a good parent. I must be telling what is going on horribly bad for you all to think so badly of me. I have never had such hatred projected at me for what happened. I was just looking for a little advice..WoW I dont get anything useful here just bashing of me. I am unimportant in this entire situation.

Your bitterness is so shiny from your constant tending and polishing and nurturing of your sense of hurt, I could see it from outer space.

[nextwife]

As an adoptive parent, I find it appalling that you would lie/mislead a child about who their bioparent is/is not. Just because a child is ADOPTED DOESN'T MEAN THEY DESERVE TO BE lied TO. Additionally, LYING about adoption implies adoption is viewed as a lesser way to be joined as a family. It implies bio is better. Every parent who LIES about adoption lessens it's validity and negatively impacts the image of adoption as an equally valid way to create a family.

[latigo]

Here is the problem with the adoption that could arise. Hopefully it never does.

To begin, the United States Supreme Court has consistently held that a parents’ rights with respect to his or her children are a property right and fall within the protection of the due process of law clause of the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution.

This is undoubtedly confusing to you, but the courts have defined “due process of law” to mean that in order for any legal proceeding to effectively deprive a person of a property right - that person must be given reasonable notice of the time, place and nature of the legal proceeding. So that the individual to be effected has a reasonable opportunity to be heard in court.

It does not mean that the affected person necessarily has a legitimate defense to the proceeding. Only that he or she has been given adequate notice and a reasonable opportunity to be heard.

Not a few adoptions have been annulled or set aside on the grounds that due process was not afforded the parent.

The United States Supreme Court case of Armstrong v. Manzo, 380 U.S. 545 is frequently cited as an example of an adoption by a stepparent being annulled.

There the natural father was able to reverse a Texas adoption on the grounds that he was not given notice of the adoption proceedings.

What is troubling about you post is that all you tell us is that the father “signed away his rights”. And the reason it is troubling is that a parent CANNOT simply end the parent/child relationship by signing a piece of paper, unless it signed in connection with a formal parent/child termination proceeding or by a consent to an adoption.

Plus you do not indicate that any effort was made to provide the natural father with notice of the petition for adoption even though you seem to have known his whereabouts. And that lack of notice was the basis for annulling the adoption in Armstrong v. Manzo.

All I’m trying to do here is to make you aware that your concerns about the father “wanting the child back” could be justified.

I suggest that you review this whole situation with an experienced family law attorney in your state.

Sax

[momofanglesx3]

Originally Posted by latigo

Here is the problem with the adoption that could arise. Hopefully it never does.

To begin, the United States Supreme Court has consistently held that a parents’ rights with respect to his or her children are a property right and fall within the protection of the due process of law clause of the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution.

This is undoubtedly confusing to you, but the courts have defined “due process of law” to mean that in order for any legal proceeding to effectively deprive a person of a property right - that person must be given reasonable notice of the time, place and nature of the legal proceeding. So that the individual to be effected has a reasonable opportunity to be heard in court.

It does not mean that the affected person necessarily has a legitimate defense to the proceeding. Only that he or she has been given adequate notice and a reasonable opportunity to be heard.

Not a few adoptions have been annulled or set aside on the grounds that due process was not afforded the parent.

The United States Supreme Court case of Armstrong v. Manzo, 380 U.S. 545 is frequently cited as an example of an adoption by a stepparent being annulled.

There the natural father was able to reverse a Texas adoption on the grounds that he was not given notice of the adoption proceedings.

What is troubling about you post is that all you tell us is that the father “signed away his rights”. And the reason it is troubling is that a parent CANNOT simply end the parent/child relationship by signing a piece of paper, unless it signed in connection with a formal parent/child termination proceeding or by a consent to an adoption.

Plus you do not indicate that any effort was made to provide the natural father with notice of the petition for adoption even though you seem to have known his whereabouts. And that lack of notice was the basis for annulling the adoption in Armstrong v. Manzo.

All I’m trying to do here is to make you aware that your concerns about the father “wanting the child back” could be justified.

I suggest that you review this whole situation with an experienced family law attorney in your state.

Sax

I used the " signed away his rights" loosely (a bit too much, i suppose). His rights as the biological father were taken from him by the judge or he relenquished them (not sure how that should be worded). He was present for the "parent/child termination proceeding." It was at this proceeding that he gave his speech about his reasons for not wanting the child.

I honestly, do not remember if he was contacted as part of the adoption or not. I know he was not at the proceeding for the adoption at court. Until my husband adopted him, I was listed as the only parent on the birth certificate. The termination of rights took place before the adoption so it may have been that he had no reason to be contacted. I really am not sure.

Thank you for honestly trying to help me. I really appreciate it.

[latigo]

Momo:

Good! In that case your concerns are not warranted. Because the adoption proceedings did not result in termination of his rights as a parent, he was not entitled to notice of the adoption.

His constitutional right to due process of law was afforded during the formal parent/child termination proceedings.

However, I think it is very imprudent of you to maintain any communication with him for any purpose. He has been permanently severed from your life and that of your son. Keep it that way.

Sax

[momofanglesx3]

Originally Posted by nextwife

As an adoptive parent, I find it appalling that you would lie/mislead a child about who their bioparent is/is not. Just because a child is ADOPTED DOESN'T MEAN THEY DESERVE TO BE lied TO. Additionally, LYING about adoption implies adoption is viewed as a lesser way to be joined as a family. It implies bio is better. Every parent who LIES about adoption lessens it's validity and negatively impacts the image of adoption as an equally valid way to create a family.

We do not mean to offend anyone in the way we have handled this. He just turned 5 years old so he just doesn't understand what it means. I say he doesn't know he is adopted - he doesn't know what it means. Here is what he does know. I am his Mama and my husband is his Daddy. He has a sister who goes to see her dad - but i am still Mama & my husband is still Daddy to her as well. He also has a little brother and he stays at home with mama and daddy just like him. No I haven't ever told him that her dad is his bio father. It's not like we are planning on keeping it from him forever just until he is old enough to understand it. He does know that his daddy and I didnt get married until after he was born. He was in the wedding. I also always tell him we were lucky because Daddy chose to love us (me, son, & daughter). He also loves the hear the story of how his daddy and I met. Any adult hearing the story would immediately know that my husband is not the biofather. He just isnt old enough to know what biological means and I'm not ready to explain how babies are made.

I may be wrong in that and i fully accept that. I am not perfect, I just try to do the best I can.

[momofanglesx3]

Originally Posted by latigo

Momo:

Good! In that case your concerns are not warranted. Because the adoption proceedings did not result in termination of his rights as a parent, he was not entitled to notice of the adoption.

His constitutional right to due process of law was afforded during the formal parent/child termination proceedings.

However, I think it is very imprudent of you to maintain any communication with him for any purpose. He has been permanently severed from your life and that of your son. Keep it that way.

Sax

Thank you for that information. As far as maintaining communication with him, I don't have a choice. We have a daughter in common as well, which is how I found out about the pictures that he has.

Again thank you so much