Alimony (Maintenance) Input

[Proserpina]

I'm tempted but won't mention what can be done with those calculators.

I think I can guess

 

[jazz99]

In anyone'e experience, is the 55/45 split of disposal income reasonable based on the hours I work? Or even a 60/40? I realize there are all sorts of other factors in the way of other assets and liabilities, just looking for a general opinion.

 

[Proserpina]

I WILL say however that Bali is absolutely spot on about one particular thing:

You NEED to have it modifiable. You and your attorney can come up with the reasons how and when, but for the love of all that's pink PLEASE DO NOT let your support order be made without you having some "out".

(It might surprise you but it's not a given - you'd think that if you were laid off that you could modify, right? Nuh uh. Not so much. Not unless your state addresses it specifically or you have it written into your agreement).

 

[Bali Hai]

In anyone'e experience, is the 55/45 split of disposal income reasonable based on the hours I work? Or even a 60/40? I realize there are all sorts of other factors in the way of other assets and liabilities, just looking for a general opinion.

The judge will see that you worked those hours during the marriage and you're just as capable of working them divorced.

The unrealistic goal is to keep her in the standard of living as she was accustomed in the marriage. Not even YOU will get that luxury losing 37k of her marital income.

The property settlement along with the other factors for alimony in your state will be considered by the judge. You never did say how much marital retirement assets you both have.

 

[jazz99]

I have about 170K, she has very little, about 4k.

 

[Bali Hai]

I have about 170K, she has very little, about 4k.

Giving up some portion of assets and taking on more debt might be a reasonable strategy for mitigating the alimony. But usually the person seeking alimony has dollar signs in their eyes. It depends how reasonable your stbx is.

 

[jazz99]

Thanks. She is actually very reasonable. This may be a very basic question, but how is the value of an "asset" like a home determined? Its really just the equity in the home, correct? But the amount we owe is considered a liability on the balance sheet, correct? Same thing with vehicles? Amount we owe vs. Blue Book value??

 

[LdiJ]

Make sure your lawyer is working for YOU. If that judge equalizes the earnings 50:50, she/he is an idiot.

You are correct, it's entirely up to the judge's discretion. Your lawyer should be able to give some insight as to how the judge you drew may decide.

In my case, I happened to get an old fart who was Catholic and didn't believe in divorce to begin with and tried to force an agreement from me. Well that didn't work. I'm glad for others that the old fart is now off the bench.

The other advice you are receiving here is coming from potiental alimony "payees" and not payors.

Be aware that once YOU agree to pay alimony, that judge will be alot less understanding if you can't pay.

The Bolded is utter BS Bali, and you know it. You are doing this OP a serious disservice here.

 

[LdiJ]

Thanks. She is actually very reasonable. This may be a very basic question, but how is the value of an "asset" like a home determined? Its really just the equity in the home, correct? But the amount we owe is considered a liability on the balance sheet, correct? Same thing with vehicles? Amount we owe vs. Blue Book value??

You are correct that the value of financed assets is the equity. Your retirement account is going to be a major issue in the property settlement. Things like that are normally divided 50/50.


Here are some "food for thought" factors that you need to consider.

You are going to be going from a married filing joint tax filing status to a single status. That will seriously impact your taxes. Its likely that you will be splitting the children in terms of tax exemptions, that is also going to further impact your taxes.

Child support is going to be based on your respective incomes, and splitting the children 50/50 is NOT going to get you out of child support, AT ALL.

Alimony is tax deductible to you and taxable income to your wife. Child support is not. Child support is normally calculated based on her income PLUS alimony and your income MINUS alimony. Therefore there can be some significant tax advantage to having more alimony and less child support. However you also have to be very careful not to word an agreement so that alimony declines when the children age out of child support...because that raises big red flags with the IRS.

So...wait until after tomorrow because its freaking April 15th, and then see a tax professional and run numbers...and then use those numbers and run child support and alimony scenarios with your attorney.

If you pay minimal alimony and high child support you are going to be far worse off during the rest of your children's minority than if you pay higher alimony and less child support...but if you have to pay very long term alimony and very short term child support that changes the picture on a long term basis.

The major point that I am making here is that taxes are a significant issue for someone like you, and most people dealing with a divorce with a situation like yours don't even take that into consideration when dealing with things like alimony and child support. All they think about is how to give the ex the least, when perhaps the least actually costs them more than the max.

 

[Bali Hai]

You are correct that the value of financed assets is the equity. Your retirement account is going to be a major issue in the property settlement. Things like that are normally divided 50/50.

They do not HAVE to be 50:50.

Here are some "food for thought" factors that you need to consider.

You are going to be going from a married filing joint tax filing status to a single status. That will seriously impact your taxes. Its likely that you will be splitting the children in terms of tax exemptions, that is also going to further impact your taxes.

Child support is going to be based on your respective incomes, and splitting the children 50/50 is NOT going to get you out of child support, AT ALL.

Alimony is tax deductible to you and taxable income to your wife. Child support is not. Child support is normally calculated based on her income PLUS alimony and your income MINUS alimony. Therefore there can be some significant tax advantage to having more alimony and less child support. However you also have to be very careful not to word an agreement so that alimony declines when the children age out of child support...because that raises big red flags with the IRS.

So...wait until after tomorrow because its freaking April 15th, and then see a tax professional and run numbers...and then use those numbers and run child support and alimony scenarios with your attorney.

If you pay minimal alimony and high child support you are going to be far worse off during the rest of your children's minority than if you pay higher alimony and less child support...but if you have to pay very long term alimony and very short term child support that changes the picture on a long term basis.

The major point that I am making here is that taxes are a significant issue for someone like you, and most people dealing with a divorce with a situation like yours don't even take that into consideration when dealing with things like alimony and child support. All they think about is how to give the ex the least, when perhaps the least actually costs them more than the max.

OP should be aware that if it is agreed that more alimony is paid in lieu of child support and the CS is not in accordance with state guidelines if his income increases, he can be taken back to court at any time for a child support increase.

All of what you wrote is smoking mirrors on the "possibility" of alimony and a good reason why OP should not agree to anything. I would let the judge order alimony unless I got a smoking deal by agreeing to pay it.

My advice is for the OP, not you, and he can take it or leave it.

 

[LdiJ]

OP should be aware that if it is agreed that more alimony is paid in lieu of child support and the CS is not in accordance with state guidelines if his income increases, he can be taken back to court at any time for a child support increase.

All of what you wrote is smoking mirrors on the "possibility" of alimony and a good reason why OP should not agree to anything. I would let the judge order alimony unless I got a smoking deal by agreeing to pay it.

My advice is for the OP, not you, and he can take it or leave it.

Once again, BS...

As I said previously, child support is calculated on her income plus alimony, and his income minus alimony. Therefore nobody is talking about any CS calculation that would not be done by state guidelines.

There is also no doubt whatsoever that he is going to be paying alimony. The only issues in question are how much, and for how long. There are no smoking mirrors here. Taxes are a huge issue for the OP and should absolutely be factored into any decision making. If OP wants to understand just how much of a factor taxes are, he should re-run his 2013 taxes as if he were single with no dependents, to see just how much his situation would change.

 

[Bali Hai]

Once again, BS...

As I said previously, child support is calculated on her income plus alimony, and his income minus alimony. Therefore nobody is talking about any CS calculation that would not be done by state guidelines.

IF his income increases post divorce, would that change the original decree as far as CS??

There is also no doubt whatsoever that he is going to be paying alimony.

That's what people are telling him, if he doesn't contest the issue, there is no doubt whatsoever.

The only issues in question are how much, and for how long.

If he AGREES, he'll be paying that much for that long no matter what.

There are no smoking mirrors here. Taxes are a huge issue for the OP and should absolutely be factored into any decision making. If OP wants to understand just how much of a factor taxes are, he should re-run his 2013 taxes as if he were single with no dependents, to see just how much his situation would change.

You don't know what OP's plans are. He might get remarried to someone with 5 kids.

 

[Proserpina]

You don't know what OP's plans are. He might get remarried to someone with 5 kids.

Not if he's got any sense, he won't

 

[CJane]

Not if he's got any sense, he won't

HEY!

 

[jazz99]

Based on my research and initial advice from my lawyer, I WILL be paying some maintenance, there is no doubt about it in Wisconsin when you factor everything in - I really do not have a lot to bargain with. Contesting it leaves it in the hands of a judge, which is a roll of the dice and could work out very much NOT in my favor, vs. attempting to come to some reasonable agreements with my stbx. Its a tough call for me. I am not attempting to not pay any maintenance; I can understand the income disparity and the fact that we had a long term marriage; I am simply trying to keep it reasonable. Thanks for the input and stressing the importance of the tax consequences also.