Detrimental reliance and spousal support question

[dbrx8]

What is the name of your state? WA

Quick question for you all. Wife left about 4 months ago and moved to Boston. We've been married about 6.5 years, most of which I've been in school. Since the separation I've been paying her rent, health insurance for her and son (3yo), cell phone, student loan (only $50/ month) and car insurance. All together this would be about 2k/month. Will this come back to haunt me in the event this heads for divorce?

She does have a job (got 4 offers within a month of being there-works at a hospital). Works part-time so that she can be home with our son and brings in around 30k a year, would be 45-50k if worked full-time. I just graduated from school and make around 90k (but have 130k in student loans). I can calculate child support fairly easily here in WA state, but what would be a reasonable sum for alimony. She does have pretty much all of our material possessions, including the car we just paid off. I've been in school up until now so we don't have a house/condo to deal with.

Thanks in advance for the great advice!

[Ohiogal]

Unless you file soon for divorce, MA is going to have jurisdiction over matters including child support and custody.

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by dbrx8

What is the name of your state? WA

Quick question for you all. Wife left about 4 months ago and moved to Boston. We've been married about 6.5 years, most of which I've been in school. Since the separation I've been paying her rent, health insurance for her and son (3yo), cell phone, student loan (only $50/ month) and car insurance. All together this would be about 2k/month. Will this come back to haunt me in the event this heads for divorce?

She does have a job (got 4 offers within a month of being there-works at a hospital). Works part-time so that she can be home with our son and brings in around 30k a year, would be 45-50k if worked full-time. I just graduated from school and make around 90k (but have 130k in student loans). I can calculate child support fairly easily here in WA state, but what would be a reasonable sum for alimony. She does have pretty much all of our material possessions, including the car we just paid off. I've been in school up until now so we don't have a house/condo to deal with.

Thanks in advance for the great advice!

Whether you would owe her any alimony at all depends on alot of different factors that we have no knowledge of. For example, how much did she support you and your marital home while you were in school? That's a major factor. 130k in student loans, divided up over six years, then taking out actual school costs, doesn't leave much left over towards living expenses, therefore its possible that she did do a lot to financially support you while you went to school.

However, if you also worked while going to school, and provided half of the family support, then maybe you would owe her no alimony at all, because your marriage was fairly short term.

You also need to take into consideration child care expenses and how much effect that has on child support if she were to work full time. You might be responsible for as much as 75% of child care costs, so that is a major factor.

Also, alimony is tax deductible to you, and taxable income to her, and child support is not. In your marginal tax bracket that means that every dollar of alimony only costs you about 70 cents or less, where every dollar of child support costs you about 1.30 or more.

Just some food for thought in making your decision.

[dbrx8]

Ohiogal- How soon is soon? What is your typical time frame for jurisdiction to pass to the state courts where mother/son reside?

LdiJ- Wife did work while I went to school (and usually earned more then I did as I was going to school full-time and only working part-time). The 130k in debt is for 3 years of grad school. I don't owe anything for my undergrad. I know her childcare expenses right now are around 700-800 a month. Is any of the student loan considered common debt (especially the aspect dealing with living expenses)? Thanks again for your responses!

[Bali Hai]

Originally Posted by dbrx8

Ohiogal- How soon is soon? What is your typical time frame for jurisdiction to pass to the state courts where mother/son reside?

LdiJ- Wife did work while I went to school (and usually earned more then I did as I was going to school full-time and only working part-time). The 130k in debt is for 3 years of grad school. I don't owe anything for my undergrad. I know her childcare expenses right now are around 700-800 a month. Is any of the student loan considered common debt (especially the aspect dealing with living expenses)? Thanks again for your responses!

The court may very well look at her as putting you through school and assigning a portion of your earning potential to her for the rest of your life.

[wileybunch]

Originally Posted by dbrx8

Ohiogal- How soon is soon? What is your typical time frame for jurisdiction to pass to the state courts where mother/son reside?

When your wife left to go to Boston, was it with the understanding you were separating and she planned to divorce you? In Mass, it's apparently one year to establish residency for divorce if the cause of the divorce happened outside of MA. But, there is apparently no waiting period to establish residency if the cause of the divorce happened while one party was living in MA so you have to consider whether she could try to file under that condition.

[url]http://www.divorcesource.com/info/divorcelawsreq/massachusetts.shtml[/url]

[dbrx8]

wileybunch-Nothing much has changed since the separation. When she left there was a faint glimmer of hope that we could reconcile, but as time passes that seems less likely. I can't say there is anyting in particular that's ocurred since the separation that would be cause for divorce. I could see her arguing that though. Thanks for the good information.

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by dbrx8

Ohiogal- How soon is soon? What is your typical time frame for jurisdiction to pass to the state courts where mother/son reside?

LdiJ- Wife did work while I went to school (and usually earned more then I did as I was going to school full-time and only working part-time). The 130k in debt is for 3 years of grad school. I don't owe anything for my undergrad. I know her childcare expenses right now are around 700-800 a month. Is any of the student loan considered common debt (especially the aspect dealing with living expenses)? Thanks again for your responses!

I don't think that you have any hope of a court ordering that she has to share in your student loan debt.

Any halfway decent attorney could argue that her sharing in that debt is not "equitable distribution". Think about it? It can be proven that she provided more of the family support while you were in school...and now you want her to continue paying for it after a divorce? Its simply not going to fly.

You will be benefitting from your education for the rest of your life. Your child will also benefit through his minority, and whatever you choose to do for him in terms of college and as an adult. However, the most benefit that your wife can hope for is some short term alimony (short term because the marriage was short term) to offset the support she provided while you were in school. Don't listen to Bali, she has NO chance of permanent alimony for a 6.5 year marriage.

Your worst case scenario is either no alimony at all, or fairly minimal alimony for a few years. Yes, you will have to pay child support for your child, but that benefits your child. Mom is clearly working to support herself. She is making a living wage even if its part time.

[Bali Hai]

Originally Posted by LdiJ

I don't think that you have any hope of a court ordering that she has to share in your student loan debt.

Any halfway decent attorney could argue that her sharing in that debt is not "equitable distribution". Think about it? It can be proven that she provided more of the family support while you were in school...and now you want her to continue paying for it after a divorce? Its simply not going to fly.

You will be benefitting from your education for the rest of your life. Your child will also benefit through his minority, and whatever you choose to do for him in terms of college and as an adult. However, the most benefit that your wife can hope for is some short term alimony (short term because the marriage was short term) to offset the support she provided while you were in school. Don't listen to Bali, she has NO chance of permanent alimony for a 6.5 year marriage.

Your worst case scenario is either no alimony at all, or fairly minimal alimony for a few years. Yes, you will have to pay child support for your child, but that benefits your child. Mom is clearly working to support herself. She is making a living wage even if its part time.

Don't listen to Bali??? Bali has been there and hammered!!!

She has a 1000% of getting alimony vs you!!! It doesn't matter if she is making a living wage or not. YOU will be required to provide her the standard of living that she was used to prior to the divorce.

These courts need to kick ass on the women and stop hammering on the men!!!

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by Bali Hai

Don't listen to Bali??? Bali has been there and hammered!!!

She has a 1000% of getting alimony vs you!!! It doesn't matter if she is making a living wage or not. YOU will be required to provide her the standard of living that she was used to prior to the divorce.

These courts need to kick ass on the women and stop hammering on the men!!!

Bali, he only recented graduated and got the good job making 90k. Therefore she didn't have time to get used to a higher standard of living. In addition, it was a short term marriage, and alimony or spousal support is not often ordered in a short term marriage. If it is ordered, it is only ordered on a short term basis.

YOU were in a long term marriage. You cannot compare your case to his.

[Bali Hai]

Originally Posted by LdiJ

Bali, he only recented graduated and got the good job making 90k. Therefore she didn't have time to get used to a higher standard of living. In addition, it was a short term marriage, and alimony or spousal support is not often ordered in a short term marriage. If it is ordered, it is only ordered on a short term basis.

YOU were in a long term marriage. You cannot compare your case to his.

The wife gave this man the best years of her life!! She sacrificed her own career to put the husband through college. Now the husband will reap the benefit of her sacrifice for the rest of his life, while the wife will be at at disadvantage for the rest of her entire life.

The wife is entitled to part of the career that she enabled the husband to attain. It doesn't matter how long they were married in this instance. Her investment in his career would be the same if it were a 30 year marriage!

[wileybunch]

Originally Posted by Bali Hai

The wife gave this man the best years of her life!! She sacrificed her own career to put the husband through college. Now the husband will reap the benefit of her sacrifice for the rest of his life, while the wife will be at at disadvantage for the rest of her entire life.

The wife is entitled to part of the career that she enabled the husband to attain. It doesn't matter how long they were married in this instance. Her investment in his career would be the same if it were a 30 year marriage!

So you're also advocating she share in the student loan debt?

[Bali Hai]

Originally Posted by wileybunch

So you're also advocating she share in the student loan debt?

Certainly not. He is SOL on that too!

[dbrx8]

OK, let's get the story straight. We got married two years before graduating from undergrad. During those two years both of us worked about the same. When I went to grad school I worked a little less she worked about the same (part time at best). Her and my salary together was no way close to meeting living expenses and thus the reason that I had to take 130k (I also had a scholarship for part of the tuition) in student loans for three years was to make up for the difference between our earnings and what living expenses actually were. So to get it straight, she was not working full-time or anything close to it (working per diem) and I was taking out loans in my name and working to earn to support much more than half of the expenses. During the first 5 years of marriage my parents contributed approximately 400/month or so. Would you change your opinion now Bali?

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by dbrx8

OK, let's get the story straight. We got married two years before graduating from undergrad. During those two years both of us worked about the same. When I went to grad school I worked a little less she worked about the same (part time at best). Her and my salary together was no way close to meeting living expenses and thus the reason that I had to take 130k (I also had a scholarship for part of the tuition) in student loans for three years was to make up for the difference between our earnings and what living expenses actually were. So to get it straight, she was not working full-time or anything close to it (working per diem) and I was taking out loans in my name and working to earn to support much more than half of the expenses. During the first 5 years of marriage my parents contributed approximately 400/month or so. Would you change your opinion now Bali?

I think that makes it more solid that alimony would be unlikely to be ordered. However, the amount of time you worked isn't as significant as the amount of income that you brought in.