A few questions about spousal support

[bobdobalina]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

Hi everybody,

I have a few questions, here's the background:

Married for 6.5 years. I make roughly $170K per year ($107K base salary+ ~$60K yearly profit-sharing bonus). She is self-employed, owner of two businesses and earns $50k-$60K per year. No kids.

Just so you know: I have a lawyer, but I'm skeptical about the answers he's giving me.

Regarding temporary SS: Do they compute it based on gross monthly income or yearly? With the large yearly bonus I receive, I much prefer it be monthly.

About maintenance support: Is it likely she'll get after a 6.5 year marriage? If so, same question applies: Based on monthly or yearly income (plus a cut of my bonus if I get one)?

Also, she listed that she works 25 hours per week on her income and expense declaration. Does the court factor that she is not working full-time and thus underemployed? Particularly when she has an associates degree in dental hygiene and not working in that field? If so, what is the likely result?

Thanks!

 

[Proserpina]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

Hi everybody,

I have a few questions, here's the background:

Married for 6.5 years. I make roughly $170K per year ($107K base salary+ ~$60K yearly profit-sharing bonus). She is self-employed, owner of two businesses and earns $50k-$60K per year. No kids.

Just so you know: I have a lawyer, but I'm skeptical about the answers he's giving me.

Regarding temporary SS: Do they compute it based on gross monthly income or yearly? With the large yearly bonus I receive, I much prefer it be monthly.

About maintenance support: Is it likely she'll get after a 6.5 year marriage? If so, same question applies: Based on monthly or yearly income (plus a cut of my bonus if I get one)?

Also, she listed that she works 25 hours per week on her income and expense declaration. Does the court factor that she is not working full-time and thus underemployed? Particularly when she has an associates degree in dental hygiene and not working in that field? If so, what is the likely result?

Thanks!

California generally considers the gross monthly income of both parties and in a marriage of less than 10 years the duration would be roughly half of the length of the marriage. In your case, it would - if it's awarded - probably be a little over 3 years. The potential earnings of each party will also be considered.

With the disparity of income between you I think you're absolutely right to do this with an attorney.

You can find more information here: California Courts: Self-Help Center: Families & Children: Child, Spousal, & Partner Support: Child, Spousal, & Partner Support Questions & Answers

 

[bobdobalina]

Thanks for the info. I've seen the Self-Help Center pages before, but I don't see anything about requirements for both parties to be working full-time. Does the court consider this when ordering support? And if one party *isn't* working full-time, do they order them to seek full-time employment? Or (and?) do they reduce the amount assigned to the payor?

 

[Proserpina]

Thanks for the info. I've seen the Self-Help Center pages before, but I don't see anything about requirements for both parties to be working full-time. Does the court consider this when ordering support? And if one party *isn't* working full-time, do they order them to seek full-time employment? Or (and?) do they reduce the amount assigned to the payor?

No, that's not how it works. There is no law saying either party must work full-time.

If either or both are considered underemployed or willfully unemployed they will be imputed an income.

 

[LdiJ]

Thanks for the info. I've seen the Self-Help Center pages before, but I don't see anything about requirements for both parties to be working full-time. Does the court consider this when ordering support? And if one party *isn't* working full-time, do they order them to seek full-time employment? Or (and?) do they reduce the amount assigned to the payor?

You said that she makes 50-60k per year with her 25 hour a week self employment. Is that net income or gross (after expenses or before expenses)?

If its net, then can she honestly go out and get a full time job as a dental hygenist that would earn her more that 50-60k per year? That certainly wouldn't be possible in my state, but in CA it might be different.

However, that is where you have an argument to make, if you have one to make at all. If you can prove, with hard evidence, that she could easily be earning significantly more than she does now, then its an argument worth making. If you cannot prove, with hard evidence, that she could easily be earning significantly more, then you will just damage your credibility if you try to make that argument.

Now, if that 50-60k is gross, and she actually only has profit of 25k per year, then you have a greater argument that she could earn more working full time as a dental hygenist, but you would also be on the hook for a higher amount of alimony on a short term basis.

So, look at things very carefully and make appropriate arguments based on real facts.

 

[Bali Hai]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

Hi everybody,

I have a few questions, here's the background:

Married for 6.5 years. I make roughly $170K per year ($107K base salary+ ~$60K yearly profit-sharing bonus). She is self-employed, owner of two businesses and earns $50k-$60K per year. No kids.

Just so you know: I have a lawyer, but I'm skeptical about the answers he's giving me.

Regarding temporary SS: Do they compute it based on gross monthly income or yearly? With the large yearly bonus I receive, I much prefer it be monthly.

About maintenance support: Is it likely she'll get after a 6.5 year marriage? If so, same question applies: Based on monthly or yearly income (plus a cut of my bonus if I get one)?

Also, she listed that she works 25 hours per week on her income and expense declaration. Does the court factor that she is not working full-time and thus underemployed? Particularly when she has an associates degree in dental hygiene and not working in that field? If so, what is the likely result?

Thanks!

My guess is that you will be ordered to pay a token amount of alimony, not that she needs it, but, because women and the courts want to keep the alimony tradition alive.

The harder you work and the less she works penalizes YOU.

 

[bobdobalina]

So, look at things very carefully and make appropriate arguments based on real facts.

Those numbers I mentioned are gross. However, I was considering making the argument that she could be working 15 hours per week (in addition to her current 25) as a dental hygienist, which would definitely add to her income.

Would that fly or is the 25 hour work week the lifestyle she's become "accustomed to." Do the courts really ignore the fact that I work full time and she does not when they decide support?

 

[Bali Hai]

Those numbers I mentioned are gross. However, I was considering making the argument that she could be working 15 hours per week (in addition to her current 25) as a dental hygienist, which would definitely add to her income.

Would that fly or is the 25 hour work week the lifestyle she's become "accustomed to." Do the courts really ignore the fact that I work full time and she does not when they decide support?

Absolutely!

 

[bobdobalina]

If either or both are considered underemployed or willfully unemployed they will be imputed an income.

Oh, thanks for that. I didn't understand what you meant by inpute an income, but now I do.

So, is this something the court will do automatically based on her reporting she works 25 hours per week? Or does my side need to argue it?

 

[Isis1]

Oh, thanks for that. I didn't understand what you meant by inpute an income, but now I do.

So, is this something the court will do automatically based on her reporting she works 25 hours per week? Or does my side need to argue it?

you NEED to speak up about it. don't assume the courts do it automatically.

 

[Proserpina]

you NEED to speak up about it. don't assume the courts do it automatically.

Absolutely!

OP, you have to raise any point you want to have factored in to the decision...they're not going to do it for you.

Stand up and protect yourself as much as you possibly can

 

[bobdobalina]

Thanks, folks. Would you also suggest we argue that she could be making more working full-time doing something else (e.g., via a vocational evaluation)?

Also she declared $3200 gross monthly, based on her 2008 tax return. However, I have a copy of her July, 2009 bank statement that shows $4500 net for the month. Is one month enough to show under-reporting income?

So, it seems we have a number of areas to attack her request, but I'm concerned that one argument undermines the other. I also understand judges generally don't approve of the "throw as much crap against the wall as possible and see what sticks" approach.

 

[Proserpina]

Thanks, folks. Would you also suggest we argue that she could be making more working full-time doing something else (e.g., via a vocational evaluation)?

Also she declared $3200 gross monthly, based on her 2008 tax return. However, I have a copy of her July, 2009 bank statement that shows $4500 net for the month. Is one month enough to show under-reporting income?

So, it seems we have a number of areas to attack her request, but I'm concerned that one argument undermines the other. I also understand judges generally don't approve of the "throw as much crap against the wall as possible and see what sticks" approach.

May we inquire as to how you got that bank statement? Does that amount reflect a single deposit from her employer, or what?

 

[bobdobalina]

May we inquire as to how you got that bank statement? Does that amount reflect a single deposit from her employer, or what?

The bank statement was on the table in our house and I made a copy of it after she asked me to come over to fix something.

The statement is from one of her businesses "Operating account." There are two transfers to her personal checking account, one on 7/1 ($3000), the other on 7/15 ($1500). They are both categorized as "Salary" on the statement.

Is this good evidence to support a claim she has under-reported her income to the court?

 

[Isis1]

it is SO much better, to subpeona her bank statements and her tax returns.