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Possible outcome of Spousal Support, please help

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need2

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

Hi, I'm new to this forum and this is my first post.

My wife is asking for divorce. We have a 6 years old son. I still love her but thats another topic. She could not pinpoint her reason on why, basically she stated we are not compatible and that she blames every little mundane things as my fault and basically can't live with "such an idiot" anymore. From my standpoint she has the tendency to blame everything under the sun to me, and after this many years of putting up with it, I thought fine, go for it. We are not living in the same room anymore, and have not been intimate for pretty much 6 years. She has a history of depression and was on medication at some point, not sure if that can change my outcome in any way. We have been married almost 7 years.

We are both currently non-citizens. We each came from different country, I am currently on work visa and in the process of getting a green card from work. My wife can't work because she is on dependent visa (thats another topic she blames me for).

We don't have much, I have a steady job that pays $50000 / year, not much. We have a mortgage of $80000, a little bit of my 401K (like $8000) and two cars that I own, thats it pretty much. Both of us has lots of credit card debt, I would say each of us have about $12000 debt from before the time I got a steady job (we were graduate students).

As far as I know if we do get divorce she will be out of status and will need to go back to her home country (or get a work visa for herself). This IMO can complicate things because if she has custody then it will be harder for me to visit my son. Well, its not the end of the world but I would prefer if she could stay in the states. Of course if I could have custody then there is no problem with me but I heard its very unlikely for a father to have custody, is that right?

Would you help me describe what would likely happen in my scenario and what are my general options?

Thanks much!
 


Proserpina

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

Hi, I'm new to this forum and this is my first post.

My wife is asking for divorce. We have a 6 years old son. I still love her but thats another topic. She could not pinpoint her reason on why, basically she stated we are not compatible and that she blames every little mundane things as my fault and basically can't live with "such an idiot" anymore. From my standpoint she has the tendency to blame everything under the sun to me, and after this many years of putting up with it, I thought fine, go for it. We are not living in the same room anymore, and have not been intimate for pretty much 6 years. She has a history of depression and was on medication at some point, not sure if that can change my outcome in any way. We have been married almost 7 years.

We are both currently non-citizens. We each came from different country, I am currently on work visa and in the process of getting a green card from work. My wife can't work because she is on dependent visa (thats another topic she blames me for).

We don't have much, I have a steady job that pays $50000 / year, not much. We have a mortgage of $80000, a little bit of my 401K (like $8000) and two cars that I own, thats it pretty much. Both of us has lots of credit card debt, I would say each of us have about $12000 debt from before the time I got a steady job (we were graduate students).

As far as I know if we do get divorce she will be out of status and will need to go back to her home country (or get a work visa for herself). This IMO can complicate things because if she has custody then it will be harder for me to visit my son. Well, its not the end of the world but I would prefer if she could stay in the states. Of course if I could have custody then there is no problem with me but I heard its very unlikely for a father to have custody, is that right?

Would you help me describe what would likely happen in my scenario and what are my general options?

Thanks much!
If she holds an H4 visa then once the divorce is complete, she's out of status and generally return to home country. (The only reason I say "generally" rather than "absolutely" is because there is one way in particular that she'd be allowed to stay in the US at least temporarily).

Is your child a dual citizen? I understand you've been married for 7 years, and he's 6 years old, but it's not quite clear of his status.
 

need2

Junior Member
If she holds an H4 visa then once the divorce is complete, she's out of status and generally return to home country. (The only reason I say "generally" rather than "absolutely" is because there is one way in particular that she'd be allowed to stay in the US at least temporarily).

Is your child a dual citizen? I understand you've been married for 7 years, and he's 6 years old, but it's not quite clear of his status.
Hi Proserpina, thanks for your reply.

Yes my son is dual citizen, US and from my wife's country. My country does not allow dual citizenship. Could you elaborate a little bit in this one particular way she could stay temporarily in the US?
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Hi Proserpina, thanks for your reply.

Yes my son is dual citizen, US and from my wife's country. My country does not allow dual citizenship. Could you elaborate a little bit in this one particular way she could stay temporarily in the US?

Okay your son being a US citizen is good (for you). Back to that in a second though.

When spouses are abused, there are 3 options available to them.

VAWA (violence against women act, though it's not limited to women) - requires the abuser to be either a US citizen or a permanent resident.

T visas and U visas are for victims of human trafficking and victims of serious crimes respectively, and these visas do not require the spouse to be a US citizen or PR.

T & U visas have much more stringent rules and are aimed at victims of crime who cooperate with the US in the prosecution of the abuser/criminal.

VAWA visas technically require at least some evidence of abuse, but in the real world it's easier to "slip by" the requirements.

The point of all of this? Well, unfortunately there are more than a few spouses who, when it becomes clear that divorce will render them "out of status", decide to punish the spouse by claiming abuse even when none has occurred.

Now, because you are not currently a permanent resident or citizen, your wife cannot use VAWA. She can try to obtain a U or T visa, but again these do require substantial hard evidence. All in all, I think you're safe at the moment.

Onto your child.

File for divorce and request temp custody AND request that any passports for the child are turned over to the court while the divorce is pending. This doesn't guarantee that Mom won't be able to get an Indian passport, but if you add the child's details to the CPIAP program the US will at least give you notice if someone tries to obtain or renew a passport for the child. More info here: http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/passports/under-16/Custody-Dispute-Denial.html

Dads get custody much more frequently than you might think :)
 

CJane

Senior Member
Who is the primary parent currently? Mom stays home, has no way of earning a living if she can't work...
 

need2

Junior Member
When spouses are abused, there are 3 options available to them.

The point of all of this? Well, unfortunately there are more than a few spouses who, when it becomes clear that divorce will render them "out of status", decide to punish the spouse by claiming abuse even when none has occurred.
Thanks for your reply.

How do you define abuse? Physical abuse, or mental abuse? She thinks I'm nuts, hence mentally abusive, so I can predict that she would say that in court. How do you prove mental abuse?
In reality though, I have never touched her directly. She had hit me, scratch my face with her nails, and throw ceramic plates at me, one time it hit my face and broke my teeth. I had half of my front teeth filled (fortunately still have the roots), not sure if that can be any proof to anything.

I did broke something which she might constitute as physical abuse, for example I was so upset I hit and broke a door in front of her (she locked me out of my own house one time). She never suffered like physical injury because of what I did though.

I understand this could not be a VAWA case since none of us are US citizens, but in case of alimony or child custody/support? When none of us are US citizens how does this work with alimony/child support?


Thanks so much

PS: BTW none of us are from India. My wife is from eastern europe, and I am from southeast asia.
 

need2

Junior Member
Who is the primary parent currently? Mom stays home, has no way of earning a living if she can't work...
Hi CJane thanks for your reply.

I'm not sure how to define that. We live in the same house, but my wife lives upstairs and I downstairs pretty much. We still go out together to parties and friends and such so most people and neighbors think we are just any normal couple, but in the house we are more like two people renting a floor each. We raise a son together, I drop him off to school, she picks him up and take care of him until I comes home from work. Then after back from office I take care of my son. He does not have his own room yet so he could stay in my floor or her floor to sleep.

Money wise, all my salary goes to a joint bank account where we both able pull money out of to pay bills and buy grocery.

How does this impact the divorce, alimony, child support/custody when she has no way of earning a living? This is not because she does not want or able to work, but because she is on H4 visa which prohibits her from working.

Thanks
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Child support is a given, if you both stay here.

If Mom stays (legally) and ends up custodial parent, you'll be paying child support. If Mom returns home and you are the custodial parent, the burden is on her but it's incredibly unlikely that you'll see a dime.

Alimony? This is tricky. You aren't under the same legal obligation as a PR or Citizen would be in providing support, which is a good thing (for you). Here's where it can be tricky.

Mom is not allowed to work. If she stays, what's she going to live on? The state cannot and will not leave you in poverty indefinitely in order to make sure she doesn't go without. In virtually every US state, alimony for a 7 year marriage is going to be questionable to begin with. You earn $50k, have a mortgage and debt burden, and if we follow the worst case scenario, she's STILL not going to be able to survive even with child support and alimony.

How soon can you meet with an immigration attorney?

Because of the complexities, it's going to be worth you while to discuss your options.

One more thing. A "U" or "T" visa is virtually impossible to obtain without compelling evidence and the willingness to aid in prosecuting the alleged offender. This is a list of qualifying crimes, though I expect it's not complete.

http://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/victims-human-trafficking-other-crimes/victims-criminal-activity-u-nonimmigrant-status/victims-criminal-activity-u-nonimmigrant-status#Qualifying Criminal Activities

(Apologies for the Indian passport comment)
 

need2

Junior Member
Alimony? This is tricky. You aren't under the same legal obligation as a PR or Citizen would be in providing support, which is a good thing (for you). Here's where it can be tricky.

Mom is not allowed to work. If she stays, what's she going to live on? The state cannot and will not leave you in poverty indefinitely in order to make sure she doesn't go without. In virtually every US state, alimony for a 7 year marriage is going to be questionable to begin with. You earn $50k, have a mortgage and debt burden, and if we follow the worst case scenario, she's STILL not going to be able to survive even with child support and alimony.
Thanks for your reply, very helpful.
So far she has mentioned divorce when we were in a heated argument. We have been like this for many years. We could never sit down and talk about what are we gonna do for the future (she always avoid it). Now we are almost 7 years, I'm guessing the longer we stay legally married, the worse the dissolve result would be?

Lets say if we waited longer and we become permanent residents, then that would be worse off (for me, but better for her)?

Half of me still love her and don't want her to suffer, the other of me being my own self preservation wants better results for myself. Its very difficult dilemma.

Thanks much
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Thanks for your reply, very helpful.
So far she has mentioned divorce when we were in a heated argument. We have been like this for many years. We could never sit down and talk about what are we gonna do for the future (she always avoid it). Now we are almost 7 years, I'm guessing the longer we stay legally married, the worse the dissolve result would be?

Lets say if we waited longer and we become permanent residents, then that would be worse off (for me, but better for her)?

Half of me still love her and don't want her to suffer, the other of me being my own self preservation wants better results for myself. Its very difficult dilemma.

Thanks much

Permanent residency would be infinitely better for Mom, and quite a lot worse for you.

At the moment, the longevity of the marriage isn't so important; the critical factor for you is going to be whether or not she becomes a permanent resident.

It's only natural that you don't want to see her or your child suffer. To look at it objectively though, at the moment your wife simply cannot afford to raise your child by herself. She can obtain food stamps (for the child, technically), yes, and maybe other forms of state aid (again, for the child). But other than that, you have to ask yourself what's in the best interest of your son?

Your son is a US citizen who has been raised in the US. The US is all he knows; school, friendships, culture. I'm not saying that he would never adjust to a new situation but it would impact him in many ways. It also leaves the US courts with very few options in terms of your son. If you object, it's virtually guaranteed (unless you are guilty of abusing him) that Mom will not be permitted to take the child with her to live elsewhere. Because of this, I'd strongly recommend - assuming you go ahead with divorce proceedings - that you ask the court to restrain Mom from even leaving with the child to go on vacation. Once she's gone with your child, getting him back here becomes a monstrous feat, and it's not cheap. She has no incentive to actually return the child at all. I'd like to say that the Hague Convention can help you but in practical terms, it's a crap-shoot (and that's assuming that her native country is a Hague signatory).

Now you're in Ohio, yes? If you can share your county we can probably find you some resources local to you.
 

need2

Junior Member
Now you're in Ohio, yes? If you can share your county we can probably find you some resources local to you.
Thank you Proserpina I appreciate very much your clarifications.

My county is Hamilton.

I have an immigration lawyer already working on my permanent residence, I'm not sure if I should ask for his advice or get another lawyer for this issue?

Thanks
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Thank you Proserpina I appreciate very much your clarifications.

My county is Hamilton.

I have an immigration lawyer already working on my permanent residence, I'm not sure if I should ask for his advice or get another lawyer for this issue?

Thanks

I'd certainly ask him the questions. If he's not sure of the family side of things, you can look here too to see if you can find something local.

http://www.hamilton-co.org/domestic/
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Thanks for your reply, very helpful.
So far she has mentioned divorce when we were in a heated argument. We have been like this for many years. We could never sit down and talk about what are we gonna do for the future (she always avoid it). Now we are almost 7 years, I'm guessing the longer we stay legally married, the worse the dissolve result would be?

Lets say if we waited longer and we become permanent residents, then that would be worse off (for me, but better for her)?

Half of me still love her and don't want her to suffer, the other of me being my own self preservation wants better results for myself. Its very difficult dilemma.

Thanks much
Actually if you waited longer and became permanent residents is would be much much much better for your CHILD. If you divorce now, your child is going to end up being separated, by a very long distance, from one of his parents. That is a horrible thing to do to a 6 year old.

I also disagree a bit that its a slam dunk for you to get custody if mom cannot stay. While you seem to be sharing child rearing pretty equally right now, obviously mom was his primary caretaker until he started school. In addition neither one of you are permanent residents. While the child is a US citizen unless you either get permanent residency or manage to be able to remain here on a work visa basis until the child is an adult, is possible that the child will end up living outside of the US anyway.

I would strongly recommend that you get a consultation immediately with an immigration attorney so see what, if anything could be done to obtain permanent residency for the both of you, so that your child can still have both of his parents in his life on a regular basis, BEFORE contemplating divorce.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Actually if you waited longer and became permanent residents is would be much much much better for your CHILD. If you divorce now, your child is going to end up being separated, by a very long distance, from one of his parents. That is a horrible thing to do to a 6 year old.
Compared to being ripped from everything he knows?

I also disagree a bit that its a slam dunk for you to get custody if mom cannot stay. While you seem to be sharing child rearing pretty equally right now, obviously mom was his primary caretaker until he started school. In addition neither one of you are permanent residents. While the child is a US citizen unless you either get permanent residency or manage to be able to remain here on a work visa basis until the child is an adult, is possible that the child will end up living outside of the US anyway.

I would strongly recommend that you get a consultation immediately with an immigration attorney so see what, if anything could be done to obtain permanent residency for the both of you, so that your child can still have both of his parents in his life on a regular basis, BEFORE contemplating divorce.
L, he's already got the residency in the bank, for all intents and purposes.

You're honestly of the belief that LPR wouldn't trump out-of-status parent when the child is a US citizen?

Why?
 

need2

Junior Member
Actually if you waited longer and became permanent residents is would be much much much better for your CHILD. If you divorce now, your child is going to end up being separated, by a very long distance, from one of his parents. That is a horrible thing to do to a 6 year old.
I totally agree with you. I was thinking the same way to wait until we get permanent residence, but lately looking at how things have progressed, I'm afraid my wife is capable of doing "whatever it takes" to get whatever she wants, and if I let her get that leverage, I'm afraid I'm just going to dig my own grave. It sounds selfish I know, unfortunately there does not seem to be any guarantee-able win-win solution. Also by staying together longer that may have its own disadvantages (like my son having to witness all those fighting, yelling and hatred).

Original plan, we do plan to get green card together (she also gets a green card as my wife) and the lawyer said everything in order, just the excruciating wait.

Proserpina, thanks for your link.
 

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