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Proving cohabitation

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jc0909

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? WA

My ex and I have a spousal support arrangement that says the obligation reduces by 50% if she moves in with a boyfriend (in a nutshell, there's more legal-eze than that). I've heard cohabitation is difficult to prove, but in this case I happen to be a close friend of her landlord, and he has offered to provide me with a copy of their lease, IF IT IS LEGAL TO DO SO. Sorry for the all-caps, just wanted to make sure it was 100% clear. I can't imagine more tangible evidence of cohabitation, and I wouldn't have to go digging through their garbage for old utility bills...

So my question is, is it legal for him to give me a copy of that document? Will it hold up in court if it comes to that?
 


Proserpina

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? WA

My ex and I have a spousal support arrangement that says the obligation reduces by 50% if she moves in with a boyfriend (in a nutshell, there's more legal-eze than that). I've heard cohabitation is difficult to prove, but in this case I happen to be a close friend of her landlord, and he has offered to provide me with a copy of their lease, IF IT IS LEGAL TO DO SO. Sorry for the all-caps, just wanted to make sure it was 100% clear. I can't imagine more tangible evidence of cohabitation, and I wouldn't have to go digging through their garbage for old utility bills...

So my question is, is it legal for him to give me a copy of that document? Will it hold up in court if it comes to that?

Yes, he can give you a copy of their signed lease. Nothing wrong with that at all.

That's pretty solid evidence, actually..assuming both of their names are on the lease.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Yes, he can give you a copy of their signed lease. Nothing wrong with that at all.

That's pretty solid evidence, actually..assuming both of their names are on the lease.
Are you sure? There is often information on a lease that someone is not supposed to release to an outside party.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Are you sure? There is often information on a lease that someone is not supposed to release to an outside party.

Such as...?

:confused:

I can find nothing in the RCW prohibiting a landlord from sharing information with a third party.

At worst, the landlord might want to redact social security numbers, but other than that? It's fairly common practice for landlords to share info with each other about bad tenants, for example (including identification information).
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Such as...?

:confused:

I can find nothing in the RCW prohibiting a landlord from sharing information with a third party.

At worst, the landlord might want to redact social security numbers, but other than that? It's fairly common practice for landlords to share info with each other about bad tenants, for example (including identification information).
I was thinking mostly social security numbers combined with addresses and perhaps phone numbers. I am particularly sensitive to that issue because our industry of course has to be very secure and cannot share anything with anybody without a release.

Also, this landlord wouldn't be sharing the info with another landlord. This landlord would be sharing the info with someone who was trying to prove something against/cause harm to his tenant.

If I were that landlord I would NOT release information about my tenants to third parties at all unless it was in the form of a reference, and then I wouldn't share identifying information, I would only confirm information provided by the tenant to the other landlord.
 

jc0909

Junior Member
Thanks for the info everybody. I'm a little unsure of myself here, I don't want to do anything that would be considered shady, but at the same time my ex is not fulfilling her obligation to inform me of her situation (it's clearly spelled out in the maintenance agreement), so I feel like I need to be a little more aggressive. She's technically violating the court order by not notifying me.

I'm wondering if the landlord could provide some kind of affidavit or statement that indicates only that he is the landlord for the two of them, that they are both named on the lease together at the house in question, without disclosing any other confidential information? Would that hold up?

Of course, there's really not much time left on the original term of the maintenance (which, of course, I specified to be non-modifyable). Low 5-figures overall. Maybe I should choose my battles here... We do have a long way to go until the kids are grown, and it would be much better to go through that being friendly.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I'm wondering if the landlord could provide some kind of affidavit or statement that indicates only that he is the landlord for the two of them, that they are both named on the lease together at the house in question, without disclosing any other confidential information? Would that hold up?
Only if the affidavit can answer questions that may be posed of it. No, it won't hold up. The LL would need to be present to testify.
 

mistoffolees

Senior Member
Only if the affidavit can answer questions that may be posed of it. No, it won't hold up. The LL would need to be present to testify.
That's the legally correct answer, but if OP shows up and says "they're living together" and ex says "we're not", but OP shows the judge a signed lease, that might well be enough to convince the judge.

Of course, it's far better if the landlord will testify.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
That's the legally correct answer, but if OP shows up and says "they're living together" and ex says "we're not", but OP shows the judge a signed lease, that might well be enough to convince the judge.

Of course, it's far better if the landlord will testify.
And when the opposing attorney objects to the introduction of the document?
 

mistoffolees

Senior Member
And when the opposing attorney objects to the introduction of the document?
First, you're assuming that ex will have an attorney.

But even if they do, judges often let things in in family court that can not be cross-examined. I'm sure you've been in court when records of various types were allowed. The judge may or may not put much weight on it, but they can consider it.

Furthermore, it may even prevent having to go to court. If ex knows that the landlord could come in with a lease, she may drop the whole matter and agree to the reduction out of court.

But, still, I agree that it's better if the landlord comes in.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
First, you're assuming that ex will have an attorney.

But even if they do, judges often let things in in family court that can not be cross-examined. I'm sure you've been in court when records of various types were allowed. The judge may or may not put much weight on it, but they can consider it.

Furthermore, it may even prevent having to go to court. If ex knows that the landlord could come in with a lease, she may drop the whole matter and agree to the reduction out of court.

But, still, I agree that it's better if the landlord comes in.
I don't disagree with you, but leases are almost always plain paper documents that could easily be forged. So, once again the LL would need to testify.

However, like I said before, if I was a LL I wouldn't go anywhere near this mess.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Of course, it's entirely possible that the ex's friend is doing little more than effectively cosigning the lease. That's the argument I'd make. What proof is there that he LIVES there?
 

mistoffolees

Senior Member
Of course, it's entirely possible that the ex's friend is doing little more than effectively cosigning the lease. That's the argument I'd make. What proof is there that he LIVES there?
The lease will probably require you to specify who lives there.

ETA: 'probably' might not be correct. I should have said 'may'. I searched for online lease forms for Washington state. I found three different forms and two of them required the tenant to list everyone who was living there on a regular basis. I can't be sure if that percentage is accurate or not.

If it doesn't, then it may also require a private investigator. In most states, a picture of the bedwarmer leaving the apartment at 7 am along with the PI's testimony may be sufficient.
 
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Bali Hai

Senior Member
Thanks for the info everybody. I'm a little unsure of myself here, I don't want to do anything that would be considered shady, but at the same time my ex is not fulfilling her obligation to inform me of her situation (it's clearly spelled out in the maintenance agreement), so I feel like I need to be a little more aggressive. She's technically violating the court order by not notifying me.

I'm wondering if the landlord could provide some kind of affidavit or statement that indicates only that he is the landlord for the two of them, that they are both named on the lease together at the house in question, without disclosing any other confidential information? Would that hold up?

Of course, there's really not much time left on the original term of the maintenance (which, of course, I specified to be non-modifyable). Low 5-figures overall. Maybe I should choose my battles here... We do have a long way to go until the kids are grown, and it would be much better to go through that being friendly.
1) Hire a lawyer, subpoena documents and the LL.
2) Sue for contempt and attorney fees.
3) Quit playing games and being a door mat.
 

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