Spousal Support?

[starling99]

What is the name of your state? Arizona
My husband and I have been married over 23 years, 4 kids (22, 20, 19, 17). I found him involved ANOTHER affair last fall and nagged him to either stop the affair or move out. Finally on May 1st he moved out. He says he wants a divorce, I say fine. He doesn't want to pay for lawyers and wants to go to mediation. He makes $110K per year as an engineer. I quit college with one year remaining towards a BS in education so he could finish his masters degree. I never returned due to the instability in his career (fired/laid off MANY times). I worked both fulltime/parttime throughout our marriage making little more than minimum wage. I am planning on returning to college in the fall to complete my bachelors degree. He has a 401K worth $300K and social security. Otherwise the only other "investment" is about $25K in savings and $250K equity in our home. From what I understand I will likely be awarded half of his SS and 401K as well as 12 to 17 years spousal support (I am 48 years old, he is 50). My biggest concern is that I get awarded enough spousal support to make the house payments and support 4 kids, all of whom will be in college. He has already said that he WILL NOT help the kids pay for college. He says that once they are 18 he has no "legal" obligation to them (no "father of the year" award for him!). What will my spousal support payments likely be and for how long, given the above information? THANKS

 

[fairisfair]

What is the name of your state? Arizona
My husband and I have been married over 23 years, 4 kids (22, 20, 19, 17). I found him involved ANOTHER affair last fall and nagged him to either stop the affair or move out. Finally on May 1st he moved out. He says he wants a divorce, I say fine. He doesn't want to pay for lawyers and wants to go to mediation. He makes $110K per year as an engineer. I quit college with one year remaining towards a BS in education so he could finish his masters degree. I never returned due to the instability in his career (fired/laid off MANY times). I worked both fulltime/parttime throughout our marriage making little more than minimum wage. I am planning on returning to college in the fall to complete my bachelors degree. He has a 401K worth $300K and social security. Otherwise the only other "investment" is about $25K in savings and $250K equity in our home. From what I understand I will likely be awarded half of his SS and 401K as well as 12 to 17 years spousal support (I am 48 years old, he is 50). My biggest concern is that I get awarded enough spousal support to make the house payments and support 4 kids, all of whom will be in college. He has already said that he WILL NOT help the kids pay for college. He says that once they are 18 he has no "legal" obligation to them (no "father of the year" award for him!). What will my spousal support payments likely be and for how long, given the above information? THANKS

the answer is of course no.

there is no spousal support calculator.

You have only one child that is eligible for support in the state of Arizona.

you could get a rough idea of your spousal support by taking his salary, deducting your own (or a fairly imputed one in the event that you have none) take the difference and divide by two. and then again by 12.

you MIIGHT get that amount on a monthly basis.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? Arizona
My husband and I have been married over 23 years, 4 kids (22, 20, 19, 17). I found him involved ANOTHER affair last fall and nagged him to either stop the affair or move out. Finally on May 1st he moved out. He says he wants a divorce, I say fine. He doesn't want to pay for lawyers and wants to go to mediation. He makes $110K per year as an engineer. I quit college with one year remaining towards a BS in education so he could finish his masters degree. I never returned due to the instability in his career (fired/laid off MANY times). I worked both fulltime/parttime throughout our marriage making little more than minimum wage. I am planning on returning to college in the fall to complete my bachelors degree. He has a 401K worth $300K and social security. Otherwise the only other "investment" is about $25K in savings and $250K equity in our home. From what I understand I will likely be awarded half of his SS and 401K as well as 12 to 17 years spousal support (I am 48 years old, he is 50). My biggest concern is that I get awarded enough spousal support to make the house payments and support 4 kids, all of whom will be in college. He has already said that he WILL NOT help the kids pay for college. He says that once they are 18 he has no "legal" obligation to them (no "father of the year" award for him!). What will my spousal support payments likely be and for how long, given the above information? THANKS

Ok...lets wrap your head around some reality.

You will NOT be awarded half of his SS. The court will not address SS at all, because, since you were married to him for more than ten years, you will be entitled to collect SS based on his earnings record, rather than your own (unless your own ends up being more after getting an education and getting a job) without it effecting his SS retirement benefits at all. It is correct that the amount you will be entitled to collect, on his earnings record, will be 1/2 of what he collects, but its completely independent of what he collects.

There is no guarantee at all that a judge will order your husband to contribute to college expenses. It may happen, but it may not. Your bigger push, should be to get a judge to order him to cooperate with the student loan process. It won't hurt your kids to be responsible for paying back their own student loans, and in all reality, with their ages being so close, dad's income isn't going to stretch to 4 college educations....nor will any alimony you could collect stretch to 4 college educations. Even if you remained together, your kids were going to have to contribute themselves.

Three of your kids are legal adults, and should be contributing to their own support at this point. Only one of your children is a minor and subject to child support, and that will be very short term.

As to the property settlement....

You are entitled to 1/2 of the equity in the home, 1/2 of the savings, 1/2 of his 401k (assuming that it all accrued during the marriage) and 1/2 of any other marital assets. You will also be responsible for 1/2 of the marital debt.

Yes, its likely that you will be entitled to some spousal support...but that will be designed to assist YOU in getting an education and forging a career, NOT for you to support adult children, who should be getting their own student loans, and supporting themselves.

I am a great believer in parents assisting their children with college educations. However, in your situation its simply not realistic to expect that either of you will be able to provide college educations for 4 kids so close in age.

Also...why isn't your 22 year old done with college, and why isn't your 20 year old at least half way done?

You need an attorney. This is not something that you should be attempting to handle without one.

 

[starling99]

I understand the SS benefits; I was just making a "generalization" because almost all of his salary has been during our married life. We got married two weeks after he received his masters degree, he having worked very little before then. Does it not matter at all that I left college in my senior year at his prompting so that he could finish his masters degree sooner? Now because of the revisions in the education program it will take me THREE additional years to get my bachelors degree. ALSO, our 22 year old will be seeking financial aid on his own and will no longer be on our taxes. Until a child is 22 they need to include their parents income on the FAFSA, whether their parents are helping them pay for their education or not. The 20 year old has completed two years at a community college and is planning on attending the university in the fall. The 18 year old has been accepted into the US Air Force Academy, so he will not have any college expenses, if he stays in the Academy. By the time our divorce is final, the 17 year will be 18 and their will be no child support. My husband has been waiting a very long time for this day as he has said many times that there was no way in "hell" he would ever pay a dime in child support (he hates ALL kids, not just his own). In order to save money all of the kids live at home while attending college (except the AFA student). The oldest has student loans and the second child will likely have loans this fall. We have not paid one dime towards the kids college tuition/books. We pay for their gas & car insurance (cars are paid for). I am mostly concerned that I won't have enough spousal support to make the house payment and buy groceries. Houses are NOT selling, so it isn't like I can just put the house on the market. The only debt we have is a $270K home mortgage. He is finally going to therapy for his sex/porn addiction, which is costing us $$$. It sounds like it would be in my best interest to stay unemployed for now or at least be "minimally" employed. I have seen lots of different scenerios in our case, anywhere from "indefinite" spousal support (due to our ages/number of years married/minimal employability), to spousal support equal to 1/2 to 3/4 of spouses pay for 1/2 to 3/4 number of years married. I realize that most divorces are "no-fault" now-a-days, but HE is the one seeking divorce, despite the fact that HE is the one who has been having affairs over the years. I said "move out", get therapy (BOTH of us) and legal seperation. He does NOT want to get "healthy" because he is having too much "fun" being "sick"....though next month he will be in a "deep, dark" depression that renders himself practically helpless....I know, I have been through this cycle MANY times before. Again, thanks for the response...

 

[LdiJ]

I understand the SS benefits; I was just making a "generalization" because almost all of his salary has been during our married life. We got married two weeks after he received his masters degree, he having worked very little before then. Does it not matter at all that I left college in my senior year at his prompting so that he could finish his masters degree sooner? Now because of the revisions in the education program it will take me THREE additional years to get my bachelors degree. ALSO, our 22 year old will be seeking financial aid on his own and will no longer be on our taxes. Until a child is 22 they need to include their parents income on the FAFSA, whether their parents are helping them pay for their education or not. The 20 year old has completed two years at a community college and is planning on attending the university in the fall. The 18 year old has been accepted into the US Air Force Academy, so he will not have any college expenses, if he stays in the Academy. By the time our divorce is final, the 17 year will be 18 and their will be no child support. My husband has been waiting a very long time for this day as he has said many times that there was no way in "hell" he would ever pay a dime in child support (he hates ALL kids, not just his own). In order to save money all of the kids live at home while attending college (except the AFA student). The oldest has student loans and the second child will likely have loans this fall. We have not paid one dime towards the kids college tuition/books. We pay for their gas & car insurance (cars are paid for). I am mostly concerned that I won't have enough spousal support to make the house payment and buy groceries. Houses are NOT selling, so it isn't like I can just put the house on the market. The only debt we have is a $270K home mortgage. He is finally going to therapy for his sex/porn addiction, which is costing us $$$. It sounds like it would be in my best interest to stay unemployed for now or at least be "minimally" employed. I have seen lots of different scenerios in our case, anywhere from "indefinite" spousal support (due to our ages/number of years married/minimal employability), to spousal support equal to 1/2 to 3/4 of spouses pay for 1/2 to 3/4 number of years married. I realize that most divorces are "no-fault" now-a-days, but HE is the one seeking divorce, despite the fact that HE is the one who has been having affairs over the years. I said "move out", get therapy (BOTH of us) and legal seperation. He does NOT want to get "healthy" because he is having too much "fun" being "sick"....though next month he will be in a "deep, dark" depression that renders himself practically helpless....I know, I have been through this cycle MANY times before. Again, thanks for the response...

There is no real set formula for alimony. No one here can predict how much you will receive. Perhaps a local attorney would be able to do so. However, one thing that I can tell you, is that if you were to receive 3/4 of his pay, you can pretty much guarantee that he will quit his job....and then you won't be seeing anything.

Hire an attorney and be prepared to be reasonable. You may not be able to keep the house.

 

[fairisfair]

I understand the SS benefits; I was just making a "generalization" because almost all of his salary has been during our married life. We got married two weeks after he received his masters degree, he having worked very little before then. Does it not matter at all that I left college in my senior year at his prompting so that he could finish his masters degree sooner? Now because of the revisions in the education program it will take me THREE additional years to get my bachelors degree. ALSO, our 22 year old will be seeking financial aid on his own and will no longer be on our taxes. Until a child is 22 they need to include their parents income on the FAFSA, whether their parents are helping them pay for their education or not. The 20 year old has completed two years at a community college and is planning on attending the university in the fall. The 18 year old has been accepted into the US Air Force Academy, so he will not have any college expenses, if he stays in the Academy. By the time our divorce is final, the 17 year will be 18 and their will be no child support. My husband has been waiting a very long time for this day as he has said many times that there was no way in "hell" he would ever pay a dime in child support (he hates ALL kids, not just his own). In order to save money all of the kids live at home while attending college (except the AFA student). The oldest has student loans and the second child will likely have loans this fall. We have not paid one dime towards the kids college tuition/books. We pay for their gas & car insurance (cars are paid for). I am mostly concerned that I won't have enough spousal support to make the house payment and buy groceries. Houses are NOT selling, so it isn't like I can just put the house on the market. The only debt we have is a $270K home mortgage. He is finally going to therapy for his sex/porn addiction, which is costing us $$$. It sounds like it would be in my best interest to stay unemployed for now or at least be "minimally" employed. I have seen lots of different scenerios in our case, anywhere from "indefinite" spousal support (due to our ages/number of years married/minimal employability), to spousal support equal to 1/2 to 3/4 of spouses pay for 1/2 to 3/4 number of years married. I realize that most divorces are "no-fault" now-a-days, but HE is the one seeking divorce, despite the fact that HE is the one who has been having affairs over the years. I said "move out", get therapy (BOTH of us) and legal seperation. He does NOT want to get "healthy" because he is having too much "fun" being "sick"....though next month he will be in a "deep, dark" depression that renders himself practically helpless....I know, I have been through this cycle MANY times before. Again, thanks for the response...

Arizona is a no fault state.

what is costing you money? his therapy or his "addiction"

how is it costing YOU money?

your idea about remaining unemployed or minimally employed bodes poorly for your ability to survive post divorce.

Grow up and you might consider some therapy for yourself as well.

 

[starling99]

OKAY, I am the one who quit school so he could finish his degree!! THEN when it was my turn to finish my degree he took a job out of state and insisted that I follow him!! I literally lost alot of earning potential due to his insistance that I quit school!! Even though I am currently unemployed, I was employed for most of the past 23 years, including a one year period where he was unemployed and I was the sole income supporting our entire family, in addition to doing all of the household tasks. I have already decided that I won't accept anything less than 1/2 of his salary for no less than 15 years, no matter what my "earning potential" is. Yes, I have considered the fact that he could just "quit" his job and I would get nothing, but he would be ruining himself at the same time....As far as selling the house...I would LOVE to, but houses are NOT selling in Arizona....no matter the price...and the real estate outlook is very poor. Of course I am going to therapy; anybody who has been married to an addict for 23 years has to go to therapy just to remain sane.

 

[quack911]

I'm sorry, but I don't think the courts are going to care one bit that you quit school to allow him to finish his degree sooner - they will not consider that when your spousal support is calculated. I've seen women who have not worked in over 20 years forced to go out and get a job because of situations like yours, with no consideration to the fact that they put their own careers on hold years ago in order to be a wife and mother; a few of these women live in near poverty because all the judge cared about was that NOW, at this moment, she was physically capable of working.

Good luck to you as you fight this battle - sounds like it's going to be a doozy. Congrats to you and your son/daughter for their appointment to the USAF Academy, that's a very high honor!!

 

[LdiJ]

OKAY, I am the one who quit school so he could finish his degree!! THEN when it was my turn to finish my degree he took a job out of state and insisted that I follow him!! I literally lost alot of earning potential due to his insistance that I quit school!! Even though I am currently unemployed, I was employed for most of the past 23 years, including a one year period where he was unemployed and I was the sole income supporting our entire family, in addition to doing all of the household tasks. I have already decided that I won't accept anything less than 1/2 of his salary for no less than 15 years, no matter what my "earning potential" is. Yes, I have considered the fact that he could just "quit" his job and I would get nothing, but he would be ruining himself at the same time....As far as selling the house...I would LOVE to, but houses are NOT selling in Arizona....no matter the price...and the real estate outlook is very poor. Of course I am going to therapy; anybody who has been married to an addict for 23 years has to go to therapy just to remain sane.

I will tell you honestly that the odds of a judge giving you half his income, for any amount of time, is very slim. Its not impossible, but its a longshot at best. If its unlikely that the judge will do it, then there is no incentive for him to agree to do so.

Just don't agree to give up any of the assets you are entitled to receive, for more alimony. That's a bad deal.

I encourage you to get enrolled in school ASAP. Apply for student loans and get yourself in school immediately, preferibly for a summer session, if at all possible.

 

[tuffbrk]

OKAY, I am the one who quit school so he could finish his degree!! THEN when it was my turn to finish my degree he took a job out of state and insisted that I follow him!! I literally lost alot of earning potential due to his insistance that I quit school!! Even though I am currently unemployed, I was employed for most of the past 23 years, including a one year period where he was unemployed and I was the sole income supporting our entire family, in addition to doing all of the household tasks.

You quit school how many years ago?! Your choice to agree. You followed him out of state? Again, your choice to agree to do so. 20 yrs later you haven't taken any classes? YOUR choice. Grow up! You can blame hubby all you want but your children have been self sufficient for quite a long time now and you could have gone back to school, even part time, if you strongly desired to do so.

If you were sole support for the entire family for a year, why be concerned that you won't be able to buy groceries and make the mortgage? You did it once, you can do it again.

You've already proven that you don't need this loser to support your household - being successful in that endeavor set a great example for your children. I'm sure they're proud of you - as you should be!

You can do this!! And you can do it on your own! Don't be letting hubby's ego get stroked thinking that you need anything from him...

I encourage you to let go of the desire to punish him and instead to think of this as an opportunity to start over and move forward with a happier, healthier lifestyle.

 

[Bali Hai]

I will tell you honestly that the odds of a judge giving you half his income, for any amount of time, is very slim. Its not impossible, but its a longshot at best. If its unlikely that the judge will do it, then there is no incentive for him to agree to do so.

Just don't agree to give up any of the assets you are entitled to receive, for more alimony. That's a bad deal.

I encourage you to get enrolled in school ASAP. Apply for student loans and get yourself in school immediately, preferibly for a summer session, if at all possible.

EXTRA EXTRA READ ALL ABOUT IT!!!

LdiJ re-enters earths atmosphere when it was thought that she was LOST IN SPACE!!