Spousal Support After 28-year Marriage

[ohemgee]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

Here's the scoop. . . .

My husband and I mutually agreed to end our 28-year marriage this past week. I have had an initial consultation with an attorney and will be retaining her once i start needing her services. I told my husband I'd like to try for a dissolution and work out our agreements ourselves in a fair and amicable fashion, that I did not intend to destroy him financially and did not want this to turn into a nasty divorce. Right off the bat he's antagonistic and is refusing to see an attorney until he sees what "papers" I come up with (my suggestions for division of property). I am totally agreeable to a 50/50 split of assets/debts and told him I would be going by the advice of my attorney and legal statutes in terms of spousal support. His response, "Spousal support? There won't be any of that."

I know there are no "magic formulas" for determining the amount of spousal support and I've read the Ohio FAQs on Spousal Support & Alimony online. I'm also familiar with the 1/3 guideline. Based on the following information and income from last year, should I be entitled to any spousal support? I am trying to put together a budget for supporting myself (for the first time ever) and am a bit anxious to know if I can expect support and get some sort of idea of how much.

His income: $61,300
My income: $33,400

Although I have a degree and worked as a Registered Nurse for 14 years, I gave up my nursing career 13 years ago so that I could be home with our children and provide their transportation to a small private school. I built a small home-based business which I now work at full-time. It has grown to provide a modest income to supplement his and we have been "comfortable". I no longer hold a nursing license and would have to go back to school to re-enter the medical field since it has changed so much.

He has an associates degree, and was 3 classes away from a Nuclear Engineering degree several years ago when he quit school after being layed off from his position at a Nuclear Power plant. Most of college work was done while we were married and had small children. A lot of time and money went into it which meant that I sacrificed as well only for him to never finish. This past Spring he started school again (without discussing it with me -- I didn't find out till his first week of classes) to get a degree in Business.

Our 2 children are grown, so although our 21 year old still lives at home, child support isn't an issue. We plan to sell our house and I'm assuming split the equity. He has a 401K and I have a small Roth IRA. We also own a timeshare. That's it for our major assets. Our only debt is our mortgage and approx. 6,000 owed on a motorcycle he just bought this past Summer. Zero credit card debt.

Any advice or insights provided would be much appreciated. If any more info would be helpful, I'd be happy to provide it.

Thanks!!!

 

[ecmst12]

Sounds like he's not going to agree to pay spousal support so if you want it, you're going to have to fight for it. How hard he will make you fight, no one here can say.

 

[mistoffolees]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

Here's the scoop. . . .

My husband and I mutually agreed to end our 28-year marriage this past week. I have had an initial consultation with an attorney and will be retaining her once i start needing her services. I told my husband I'd like to try for a dissolution and work out our agreements ourselves in a fair and amicable fashion, that I did not intend to destroy him financially and did not want this to turn into a nasty divorce. Right off the bat he's antagonistic and is refusing to see an attorney until he sees what "papers" I come up with (my suggestions for division of property). I am totally agreeable to a 50/50 split of assets/debts and told him I would be going by the advice of my attorney and legal statutes in terms of spousal support. His response, "Spousal support? There won't be any of that."

I know there are no "magic formulas" for determining the amount of spousal support and I've read the Ohio FAQs on Spousal Support & Alimony online. I'm also familiar with the 1/3 guideline. Based on the following information and income from last year, should I be entitled to any spousal support? I am trying to put together a budget for supporting myself (for the first time ever) and am a bit anxious to know if I can expect support and get some sort of idea of how much.

His income: $61,300
My income: $33,400

Although I have a degree and worked as a Registered Nurse for 14 years, I gave up my nursing career 13 years ago so that I could be home with our children and provide their transportation to a small private school. I built a small home-based business which I now work at full-time. It has grown to provide a modest income to supplement his and we have been "comfortable". I no longer hold a nursing license and would have to go back to school to re-enter the medical field since it has changed so much.

He has an associates degree, and was 3 classes away from a Nuclear Engineering degree several years ago when he quit school after being layed off from his position at a Nuclear Power plant. Most of college work was done while we were married and had small children. A lot of time and money went into it which meant that I sacrificed as well only for him to never finish. This past Spring he started school again (without discussing it with me -- I didn't find out till his first week of classes) to get a degree in Business.

Our 2 children are grown, so although our 21 year old still lives at home, child support isn't an issue. We plan to sell our house and I'm assuming split the equity. He has a 401K and I have a small Roth IRA. We also own a timeshare. That's it for our major assets. Our only debt is our mortgage and approx. 6,000 owed on a motorcycle he just bought this past Summer. Zero credit card debt.

Any advice or insights provided would be much appreciated. If any more info would be helpful, I'd be happy to provide it.

Thanks!!!

My view?

First, property and debt split 50:50 (including any retirement accounts).

Spousal support? The problem is that you're significantly underemployed. If you used your RN degree, you could be making roughly as much as your husband. So I would argue that he shouldn't have to pay longer term spousal support when you choose to earn less than you could.

However, it will probably take a few months to get re-licensed and refresh your skills (it really doesn't take long - I know because my ex was an RN who didn't work during the 14 years we were married and she became rectified in just a few months). So a reasonable period (perhaps 6 months) of support while you bring your credentials current wouldn't be unreasonable. Maybe $1 K per month for 6 months. But, again, that's just an off-the cuff number. Your judge may well see things differently.

 

[ohemgee]

Sounds like he's not going to agree to pay spousal support so if you want it, you're going to have to fight for it. How hard he will make you fight, no one here can say.

He will probably fight it to the point that his attorney (when he gets one) tells him he should, which is why I'm wondering if an attorney would tell him that he will have to pay SOMEthing.

Spousal support? The problem is that you're significantly underemployed.

It doesn't matter that I no longer want to work as a nurse since I have a new career with my own business which I don't want to give up?

 

[Proserpina]

He will probably fight it to the point that his attorney (when he gets one) tells him he should, which is why I'm wondering if an attorney would tell him that he will have to pay SOMEthing.



It doesn't matter that I no longer want to work as a nurse since I have a new career with my own business which I don't want to give up?

The court will look at what you're capable of earning, not your preferred choice of profession.

What if, for example, you really loved flipping burgers?

 

[ohemgee]

The court will look at what you're capable of earning, not your preferred choice of profession.

What's frustrating is that he COULD have been capable of earning a LOT more, too, if he had finished those 3 classes! I've done some research and it would cost approx. $3000 and 6 months (including some full-time clinical work which will make it impossible to keep my business and pay bills in the interim) just for an online refresher course. Then I'd have to take the state board exam again after having been out of the field for 13 years (the last seven of the 14 I did nursing were doing home care and nursing home shifts part time). He could have finished his degree in the same amount of time and less money.

 

[Nevergrowup]

Not an expert...but...

14 years ago OP and her husband apparently made the family decision for her to quit and focus on the children, and she built a business that she could do instead. 14 years is a long time...presumably, husband was okay with it or would have taken action way before now.

I can't see how this is voluntarily underemployed, when it seems like it was a family decision, and it isn't as if OP isn't working, she is. She shouldn't be forced to give up her career that apparently husband was fine with, in order to go back to a career she and her husband decided she should leave 14 years ago.

While I admit I don't have a lot of experience in alimony matters, this is a very long term marriage, and a judge may not hold it against her since it was so long ago. RIGHT NOW she isn't qualified to be a nurse, so really, she isn't underemployed at this moment.

In one of the cases I've seen (which admittedly aren't many) the wife was a certified accountant that made very good money, and voluntarily was underemployed as a teacher. The decision occured during the marriage and she was a teacher for about 10 years. Husband was unsuccessful fighting alimony based on her choice of careers, although he claimed she could make more money as an accountant.

The bottom line here, though, OP, is that you really should be looking at your budget as if you have no alimony. Try to set yourself up so that you can support yourself, because even if you are awarded alimony, it might only be for a short time. Even if it is several years, what happens when it stops? You need to be able to support yourself fully without it.

 

[ohemgee]

I can't see how this is voluntarily underemployed, when it seems like it was a family decision, and it isn't as if OP isn't working, she is. She shouldn't be forced to give up her career that apparently husband was fine with, in order to go back to a career she and her husband decided she should leave 14 years ago.

That's exactly my point. He was always supportive of the decision and has NEVER suggested that I return to nursing. However, I'm not naive enough to think he won't try the underemployment angle.

The bottom line here, though, OP, is that you really should be looking at your budget as if you have no alimony.

I totally agree, and that is my goal, but it may take a couple of years and I'm concerned about the financial stability of being self-employed on my own. It was never an issue since his income did the bulk of supporting us whereas mine went for things like the children's tuition (primary & secondary school), retirement savings (Roth IRA), vacations, home improvements, clothing, etc. -- basically some of the necessities and most of the extras.

 

[Nevergrowup]

OP, I have to ask...have you tried counseling? It always makes me very sad to see a long term marriage disolve.

 

[ohemgee]

OP, I have to ask...have you tried counseling? It always makes me very sad to see a long term marriage disolve.

Yes, we've tried all sorts of counseling, seminars, books, video helps, etc, etc, starting after 4 years of marriage. I held on for way too long and have finally succumbed to the fact that it's just not ever going to get any better. It IS indeed, very sad, believe me -- I know. I have been grieving over it for years. He kept giving me hope but then wouldn't put the effort into it that was needed. Even our counselor gave up after a year because my husband wasn't making any effort.

 

[Ohiogal]

Worse case scenario is he would pay you approximately 14k a year for 1/3 the length of the marriage (approximately 9 years). Now that also depends on how much in retirement you have and how much he has. And how much your business is worth. What type of business do you have? What is its value? What do you do from home?

 

[ohemgee]

I am a web designer. I don't think it's worth a whole lot since I don't have inventory of anything. All I have is some computer equipment and a desk and maybe a couple dozen clients which pay me on an hourly basis.

I'm waiting for a report from our financial adviser on the amounts in his 401K and my Roth IRA. Neither is a huge amount, but hsi 401K is significantly more than my IRA.

 

[Proserpina]

I am a web designer. I don't think it's worth a whole lot since I don't have inventory of anything. All I have is some computer equipment and a desk and maybe a couple dozen clients which pay me on an hourly basis.

But as misto indicated, in say a year's time you could easily be capable of earning as much as (if not more) than your ex.

Correct?

How much do you actually currently earn compared with what you were/are capable of earning?

 

[ohemgee]

But as misto indicated, in say a year's time you could easily be capable of earning as much as (if not more) than your ex.

Correct?

How much do you actually currently earn compared with what you were/are capable of earning?

I have no clue what RNs make now, so I don't know what to compare it with.

As I said, I would have to take a refresher course, which we don't have the money for, and it would include approx. 2 months of working in a clinical setting so I would have to give up my business and its income during that time. I would also have to take the state board of nursing exam and get a new license. I'm 50 years old. I don't think I should be forced to go back to a career that I gave up 13 years ago with my husband's blessing. He, too, reaped the benefits of me working at home.

He also could have easily been making more if he had finished his degree.

 

[Proserpina]

But he DIDN'T finish his degree. It won't be used against him. You on the other hand DID finish your degree.

Now, you are in a long term marriage. That does generally - very generally - increase your chances of getting alimony. Long term? Perhaps.

But there's at least a fair chance that you are going to be expected to do whatever you can to provide for yourself given that you DO have the capability to earn a decent wage.

You still haven't told us what your web design business is earning.