Spousal Support - Ohio

[hadadeuce]

What is the name of your state? OHIO
Married 10 years, hoping to file for dissolution in the next couple weeks. One child, and already know about child support in OH. Wife is stay at home mom although our child is in school all day. I have asked her to go back to work for the last 2-3 years since our child has been in school full time. I made over $200K last year, $150K previous year, no college degree. She has a college degree and has worked in her degreed field. She has a trust fund, high dollar property in her name from family, and a good chunk of change in the bank from her parents. I do not want any of that. Her lawyer has based support at her remaining a stay at home mom (i.e. $0), and my 2004 income, my highest ever. My income is 100% commission, no salary and it could drop off at any time. One other issue, she is relocationg to another area of the state three hours away. I will follow to be close to my child, but this will also reduce my income somewhat. Do I have any basis to limit her support due to her assets, property and cash? I will have very little left after this dissolution.

[BelizeBreeze]

Where is your attorney in all of this?

[hadadeuce]

My lawyer is playing a wait and see game. I want to be prepared when the proposal is received from her lawyer. I know he is on top on things, but I am soliciting other opinions. My lawyer seems to shy away from what I can expect to be hit with; I do not know if it is because he is afraid to tell me what I am in for or if he just doesn't know. I need to be prepared to relocate and set a budget to begin looking for a new house, etc...

[hadadeuce]

Received a proposed Separation Agreement and Property Settlement from wifes lawyer. She is asking for the following:
- 5 years Spousal support (10 year marriage), Ohio averages 1/3 term of marriage
- $9,000 per month spousal support
- 100% of my 401K
- 50% of equity in house,
- wifes name to be put on my daughters 529K,which I just started, for joint decision making as to its usage
- alternate chicl tax deduction
- and for me to pay 50% of her legal fees and all court costs.

In addition, Ohio will require that I pay nearly $1300/month in child support, which I would never argue. As mentioned in my original posting, I made about $230K last year, nearly double what I made the previous year and 4x the year before, BUT I will likely plateau close to last years income. She is claiming she wants to maintain the standard of living she is accustomed to. In the mean time, she spent virtually every dime we had in the bank and has racked up credit cards. I have zero credit card debt on my own. I would love to be accustomed to the life she proposes.

I am going to meet with my lawyer Friday to hammer out a reply, but I am just looking for opinions prior to that. I believe her request is WAY high, which is probably to be expected, but is it possible I could be responsible for this kind of support?

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by hadadeuce

Received a proposed Separation Agreement and Property Settlement from wifes lawyer. She is asking for the following:
- 5 years Spousal support (10 year marriage), Ohio averages 1/3 term of marriage
- $9,000 per month spousal support
- 100% of my 401K
- 50% of equity in house,
- wifes name to be put on my daughters 529K,which I just started, for joint decision making as to its usage
- alternate chicl tax deduction
- and for me to pay 50% of her legal fees and all court costs.

In addition, Ohio will require that I pay nearly $1300/month in child support, which I would never argue. As mentioned in my original posting, I made about $230K last year, nearly double what I made the previous year and 4x the year before, BUT I will likely plateau close to last years income. She is claiming she wants to maintain the standard of living she is accustomed to. In the mean time, she spent virtually every dime we had in the bank and has racked up credit cards. I have zero credit card debt on my own. I would love to be accustomed to the life she proposes.

I am going to meet with my lawyer Friday to hammer out a reply, but I am just looking for opinions prior to that. I believe her request is WAY high, which is probably to be expected, but is it possible I could be responsible for this kind of support?

Obviously she is asking for 50% of your gross income in spousal support....that, combined with child support is obviously unreasonable.

Its also completely unreasonable for her to get 100% of your 401k...unless you are going to be keeping other assets that offset the 401k.

The rest of the items are quite normal and seem fair to me. You are actually lucky that she isn't asking you to pay 100% of her legal fees.

On the property side of things she is going to be entitled to 50% of the assets, and responsible for 50% of the debt. However....it might be in your best interest (to protect your credit and guarantee that the debts get paid) to take full responsibility for any debt that is held jointly....and to keep a corresponding amount of assets to offset that. Or, you could insist that the marital debt be paid off from the equity in the house....and then any remainder split between you.

You stated previously that she had a trust fund and a large amount of money in the bank. Is this still the case? How much income does she recieve from the trust? How much cash does she have? That can factor into decisions on alimony. Whether or not her degree is significant depends on how long its actually been since she was last in the workforce, and whether or not additional training would be required to refresh her skills.

Please remember that alimony/spousal support is tax deductible to you, and taxable income to her. (child support is not). At your income level that is EXTREMELY significant. Every dollar she gets in alimony is only going to cost you about .50 after federal, state and social security/medicare taxes.....so keep that in mind when you negotiate.

[BelizeBreeze]

Originally Posted by hadadeuce

Received a proposed Separation Agreement and Property Settlement from wifes lawyer. She is asking for the following:

YOUR counter proposal:

Originally Posted by hadadeuce

- 5 years Spousal support (10 year marriage), Ohio averages 1/3 term of marriage
- $9,000 per month spousal support

2 years spousal support at $1,000 per month

Originally Posted by hadadeuce

- 100% of my 401K

0% of your 401K

Originally Posted by hadadeuce

- 50% of equity in house,

50% of equity in the home, she refinance within 1 year and remove you from the mortgage.

Originally Posted by hadadeuce

- wifes name to be put on my daughters 529K,which I just started, for joint decision making as to its usage

Wife's name does NOT appear on the 529K.
[quote=hadadeuce]
- alternate chicl tax deduction
[/qouote]
same

Originally Posted by hadadeuce

- and for me to pay 50% of her legal fees and all court costs.

She pays all of her legal fees.

Also, You carry medical and health insurance on the child

[hadadeuce]

Update, wife has moved more than 150 miles away but in same state. My company is going to relocate me this summer, and maintain cluse to my last years pay. Thus we have a house that is still for sale, and no Dissolution agreement filed yet.

Countered at $3500/mo for 36 mos, 850/month child support, 50% of 401K, 50/50 split on house after her premarital money (she put down $25,000 gift from her parents while we were married, counted as premarital asset), I pick up court fees. They responded in a rage, she was ready to file that day. I like my lawyer but he really gets under the skin of my not-soon-enough-to-be ex which is good and bad. He suggests I offer to buy her out of the house, but my savings would be tapped out.

Their reply back to us at $5500/month for 42 months, 890/month child support, 100% of 401K, take it or she files for divorce.
I would like to go back at $5000/mo in spousal for 42 months non-modifyable, (this is 1/3 the term of marriage), $890 in child support (based on state of Ohio calculator), 50% of 401K. I know the non-modifyable part puts me at a huge risk if I become unemployed, but it could save me a lot if I continue to grow my income at the rate I have been. What about offering her the house in a trade for the 50% of my 401K? The net $ to her would be about the same. Any input?

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by hadadeuce

Update, wife has moved more than 150 miles away but in same state. My company is going to relocate me this summer, and maintain cluse to my last years pay. Thus we have a house that is still for sale, and no Dissolution agreement filed yet.

Countered at $3500/mo for 36 mos, 850/month child support, 50% of 401K, 50/50 split on house after her premarital money (she put down $25,000 gift from her parents while we were married, counted as premarital asset), I pick up court fees. They responded in a rage, she was ready to file that day. I like my lawyer but he really gets under the skin of my not-soon-enough-to-be ex which is good and bad. He suggests I offer to buy her out of the house, but my savings would be tapped out.

Their reply back to us at $5500/month for 42 months, 890/month child support, 100% of 401K, take it or she files for divorce.
I would like to go back at $5000/mo in spousal for 42 months non-modifyable, (this is 1/3 the term of marriage), $890 in child support (based on state of Ohio calculator), 50% of 401K. I know the non-modifyable part puts me at a huge risk if I become unemployed, but it could save me a lot if I continue to grow my income at the rate I have been. What about offering her the house in a trade for the 50% of my 401K? The net $ to her would be about the same. Any input?

Ok...please listen to me and listen to me carefully....because its unlikely that you are going to get this same perspective from other posters....because they are not tax experts.

Remember this...alimony is tax deductible...child support is not. At your income level that is EXTREMELY significant.

Despite what the OH child support calculator says...if this went in front of a judge your wife could easily get significantly more than what you are offering in child support. The average child support amount is 17% of gross income for one child. 17% of your gross income would be 3258.00 per month. Between federal and state taxes that means that the child support would actually cost you at least 5430.00 a month, if not more.

She might get significantly less alimony if it went it front of a judge. However, 5500.00 in alimony would cost you less than 3300.00 in true income.

So, lets calculate that out.....

5500.00 = 3300.00 Alimony
890.00 = 1483 Child Support
Total: 4783.00 Total net cash outlay

3258.00 = 5430.00 Child Support
3000.00 = 1800.00 Alimony
Total: 7230.00 Total net cash outlay

Even if the figures are completely reversed:

3258.00 = 5430 Child Support
890.00 = 534.00 Alimony
Total: 5964.00 Total net cash outlay

Now, the bottom line is that as soon as alimony ends she is going to ask for a child support increase...and she will most likely get a child support increase unless your income reduces. That is reality. She will also certainly fight for more child support if you nit-pick on alimony.

She and her attorney are actually being incredibly stupid for offering you this kind of structure for the next 42 months. If they had any sense they would be pushing for far more child support and less alimony.

So....you have a choice for the next 42 months...MAKE THE SMART ONE....because once alimony ends your burden is going to be non-tax deductible child support.

Here is my suggestion...give in on the 5500.00/month for 42 months. (with your current income level its not worth being locked into 5000.00 a month if something goes bust AND its a major tax advantage)....yeah, maybe she could ask for more if you make a lot more....and maybe a judge would give it to her...but its not that likely....she would be far more likely to go for more child support and its far more likely that a judge would give it to her.....and its likely that she wouldn't rock the boat at all for that 42 months.

Agree on the 890/month child support because that is significantly to your advantage for the next 42 months.

DO NOT give in on 100% of your 401k (unless its really low in comparison to your income)....because no judge would give that to her. However if its negligible compared to your income that might be something to give her a "victory" over....remember...she and her attorney are being VERY stupid on the alimony/child support issue.

Agree to 50% on the house...because a judge WOULD give that to her. Don't offer her more, you don't need to do so.

Like I said...its unlikely that anyone else is going to give you this perspective...because most of them won't look at it from a tax perspective and a true "net" as to how much things will cost you. However, you can easily verify this by paying your last year's tax preparer to re-run your last year's numbers as if you paid 5500.00 a month in alimony. (both federal and state) You will be AMAZED.

[ohdadofive]

Originally Posted by LdiJ

Ok...please listen to me and listen to me carefully....because its unlikely that you are going to get this same perspective from other posters....because they are not tax experts.

Remember this...alimony is tax deductible...child support is not. At your income level that is EXTREMELY significant.

I agree with LdiJ. Another thing you need to think about...... get the child as a tax deduction. Even though you do not have custody, you can claim them on your taxes as dependents. Your accoutant will just have to include the divorce decree when they file as I am sure your ex will not sign the proper forms.

I did it and am glad I did. It will save you some money.

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by ohdadofive

I agree with LdiJ. Another thing you need to think about...... get the child as a tax deduction. Even though you do not have custody, you can claim them on your taxes as dependents. Your accoutant will just have to include the divorce decree when they file as I am sure your ex will not sign the proper forms.

I did it and am glad I did. It will save you some money.

He might as well not fight that battle. He makes too much money for the tax deduction to be of anything more than marginal value to him.

[hadadeuce]

Thanks for all of the input. I really do appreciate it.