spouse support and alamony

[tllowery]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Pennsylvania.

I have been married for nine years now and we have been in a rocky marriage the whole time. She has left once already and we chose to try to make things work so we moved back in together. My question is will I be responsible for paying support.
A little background:
Once we had kids I decided it was time to take responsibility for my children and work on my education and training to better myself during the past 9 years I have done ok with my career and I feel that I am a fair parent and forgiving husband. My wife on the other hand has taken a carefree life style and no interest in doing anything other then bouncing from job to job and not trying to acquire any skills or education to help provide for our two kids.
She has recently taken an *almost* full time job and has held it for a little while.
I currently make about 9/10 of the income and I am a half time college student.
I plan on asking for primary custody of our kids because I do not feel that she is mature enough to take care of them both emotionally and financially.
I feel really bad that I am ready to throw in the towel but I am sick of being unhappy and trying to grow and maintain a marriage that the other person has no interest in doing their part to make it survive.

Thanks,

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by tllowery

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Pennsylvania.

I have been married for nine years now and we have been in a rocky marriage the whole time. She has left once already and we chose to try to make things work so we moved back in together. My question is will I be responsible for paying support.
A little background:
Once we had kids I decided it was time to take responsibility for my children and work on my education and training to better myself during the past 9 years I have done ok with my career and I feel that I am a fair parent and forgiving husband. My wife on the other hand has taken a carefree life style and no interest in doing anything other then bouncing from job to job and not trying to acquire any skills or education to help provide for our two kids.
She has recently taken an *almost* full time job and has held it for a little while.
I currently make about 9/10 of the income and I am a half time college student.
I plan on asking for primary custody of our kids because I do not feel that she is mature enough to take care of them both emotionally and financially.
I feel really bad that I am ready to throw in the towel but I am sick of being unhappy and trying to grow and maintain a marriage that the other person has no interest in doing their part to make it survive.

Thanks,

You do realize that emotional maturity and finances have absolutely nothing to do with custody decisions don't you?

You do realize that custody decisions are based in great part on who has been the primary caretaker for the children? Not who has provided the most financially, but who the person is that takes physical care of the children most of the time, takes them to their doctor's appointments, deals with school and homework, gives them their baths, fixes their meals etc?

If you are working full time and going to school part time, you will have a hard time proving that you have been the children's primary caretaker. If you are working full time and going to school part time you will even have a problem demonstrating that you have the time to spend with the children that would be necessary for the parent with primary custody.

For example, where do you plan for the children to be while you are at class?

[tllowery]

Originally Posted by LdiJ

You do realize that emotional maturity and finances have absolutely nothing to do with custody decisions don't you?

You do realize that custody decisions are based in great part on who has been the primary caretaker for the children? Not who has provided the most financially, but who the person is that takes physical care of the children most of the time, takes them to their doctor's appointments, deals with school and homework, gives them their baths, fixes their meals etc?

If you are working full time and going to school part time, you will have a hard time proving that you have been the children's primary caretaker. If you are working full time and going to school part time you will even have a problem demonstrating that you have the time to spend with the children that would be necessary for the parent with primary custody.

For example, where do you plan for the children to be while you are at class?

To answer the first, no maturity and responsibility does have a lot to do with bringing up children so I disagree.

As far as primary caretaker I get up every morning and make the kids lunches, breakfasts, and often dinners. When I am not making them dinner it usually gets done by my mother-in-law and I get the oldest to school, do dishes, help with homework (I am usually the only one that can get my son to do his homework) and laundry and I am still to rock of the family solving child disputes and sicknesses. Don’t assume what you do not know.

I am also the only one that gives them baths and showers more often then she will try to.

As far as the schooling you do know that there is a thing called online learning, right?

So because I am a person going to school and fulltime job I can't take care of my kids seems to be a bad call on your part I think single parents do it all the time.

If my reply seems a mean it’s because your reply comes back negative and assuming.

Don't assume because I work and study that I have no time for my children.

Thanks, now please some real *legal* advice.

[CourtClerk]

Originally Posted by tllowery

So because I am a person going to school and fulltime job I can't take care of my kids seems to be a bad call on your part I think single parents do it all the time.

Coming from someone who held a full time job, went to school full time and was my child's primary caretaker, all I can say is well said. Although I have to say, I went to a traditional brick and mortar university. Looking back, for that year and a half I had to finish school after he was born, he spent more time with the babysitter than he did me. You're ahead of the game if you're doing distance learning.

However, I will say this. Your argument that your wife is not emotionally or financially mature enough to care for the children is flawed at best. Financially maturity (or instability) can be cured by you paying child support, which will probably be her argument, and there are tons of emotionally immature individuals raising children (unfortunately). Doesn't make it right, but it's not illegal either. Work on basically just stating WHY the children are in a better, more stable position by being with you. Not necessarily trying to demonize your soon to be ex wife.

[tllowery]

Originally Posted by CourtClerk

Coming from someone who held a full time job, went to school full time and was my child's primary caretaker, all I can say is well said. Although I have to say, I went to a traditional brick and mortar university. Looking back, for that year and a half I had to finish school after he was born, he spent more time with the babysitter than he did me. You're ahead of the game if you're doing distance learning.

However, I will say this. Your argument that your wife is not emotionally or financially mature enough to care for the children is flawed at best. Financially maturity (or instability) can be cured by you paying child support, which will probably be her argument, and there are tons of emotionally immature individuals raising children (unfortunately). Doesn't make it right, but it's not illegal either. Work on basically just stating WHY the children are in a better, more stable position by being with you. Not necessarily trying to demonize your soon to be ex wife.

Thanks I do see the financial part is flawed with your point and while I don't like the second part I see its truth in today’s culture. I do not want to keep them from her, she has every right to them as I do even though I do not think she can handle everything that they need from love to frustration when they are bad and rules that have to be laid down that they will try to cross.
She is a very short tempered woman and she can not handle the later part good at all.

My big concern is am I going to even be able to afford to live if we live separate and divorced or because I am the big part of the income is the court going to say you need to give half or more of your income to her.

Sorry for shooting her down and talking bad about her but I am frustrated that I have tried so hard and it’s coming to this.

Thanks again.

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by tllowery

To answer the first, no maturity and responsibility does have a lot to do with bringing up children so I disagree.

As far as primary caretaker I get up every morning and make the kids lunches, breakfasts, and often dinners. When I am not making them dinner it usually gets done by my mother-in-law and I get the oldest to school, do dishes, help with homework (I am usually the only one that can get my son to do his homework) and laundry and I am still to rock of the family solving child disputes and sicknesses. Don’t assume what you do not know.

I am also the only one that gives them baths and showers more often then she will try to.

As far as the schooling you do know that there is a thing called online learning, right?

So because I am a person going to school and fulltime job I can't take care of my kids seems to be a bad call on your part I think single parents do it all the time.

If my reply seems a mean it’s because your reply comes back negative and assuming.

Don't assume because I work and study that I have no time for my children.

Thanks, now please some real *legal* advice.

Please re-read what I wrote, and then imagine yourself in court having to explain your lifestyle to a judge who knows nothing about you. Then imagine what your wife's arguments to the judge will be.

A judge very possibly WILL assume that because you work and study that you will have no time for your children...or not enough time for your children to assume primary custody.

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by CourtClerk

Coming from someone who held a full time job, went to school full time and was my child's primary caretaker, all I can say is well said. Although I have to say, I went to a traditional brick and mortar university. Looking back, for that year and a half I had to finish school after he was born, he spent more time with the babysitter than he did me. You're ahead of the game if you're doing distance learning.

However, I will say this. Your argument that your wife is not emotionally or financially mature enough to care for the children is flawed at best. Financially maturity (or instability) can be cured by you paying child support, which will probably be her argument, and there are tons of emotionally immature individuals raising children (unfortunately). Doesn't make it right, but it's not illegal either. Work on basically just stating WHY the children are in a better, more stable position by being with you. Not necessarily trying to demonize your soon to be ex wife.

CC...when you were doing all of that did your son's father want to be seriously involved and assume primary custody?

I seem to remember that it was not the case for you at that time.

[tllowery]

Originally Posted by LdiJ

Please re-read what I wrote, and then imagine yourself in court having to explain your lifestyle to a judge who knows nothing about you. Then imagine what your wife's arguments to the judge will be.

A judge very possibly WILL assume that because you work and study that you will have no time for your children...or not enough time for your children to assume primary custody.

Ldij,
I do not see how going to school *half time* and working a normal job can lead to an assumption that I do not have time for my kids. I think this is how lots of other people are. So, if I the part time student and fulltime worker has no time for children then I wonder how high the percentange of other people do not have time for their kids but yet still make time for them. I also find it hard to beleave "a judge very possibly WILL assume" and punish a loving father who wants to provide better and be a role model to his children by completing my education.

CC went to a traditional school with set class times where my school is done when time permits like when the kids are in bed or when we both are working on homework.

[tllowery]

I would imagine that the court will encourage the person that is not equal in skills or education to pursue changing that so they don't end up on the welfare system after the time that the spousal support expires, wouldn't you think?

If so, now that other person does not have time for the kids either so what do we do give the kids to foster care because neither parents have time for the kids because of a "lifestyle" issue?

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by tllowery

Ldij,
I do not see how going to school *half time* and working a normal job can lead to an assumption that I do not have time for my kids. I think this is how lots of other people are. So, if I the part time student and fulltime worker has no time for children then I wonder how high the percentange of other people do not have time for their kids but yet still make time for them. I also find it hard to beleave "a judge very possibly WILL assume" and punish a loving father who wants to provide better and be a role model to his children by completing my education.

CC went to a traditional school with set class times where my school is done when time permits like when the kids are in bed or when we both are working on homework.

In some ways you seriously do not understand what I am saying to you.

You just explained one aspect...and gave a good explanation. You explained that your school hours are not set and you can work on school "when time permits and when we are both working on homework". That's good.

However, you are also assuming that if you do not get primary custody that you are being "punished".

You and mom are 100% equal in the eyes of the law. Therefore, if you would be "punished" if you do not get primary custody, then mom will be "punished" if she does not get primary custody as well.

To be honest, your entire attitude seems to reflect the idea that you believe that she should be "punished" because she has not made the choice that you have made to better herself...that it somehow makes her less worthy as a parent.

Legally, that's not correct. Legally your education and higher earning power do not make you more worthy than mom.

If a married couple, with children, get a divorce it means that neither one of them are going to get to live with their children full time, anymore. If one of them has traditionally spent more time with the children than the other, then that parent is generally going to be viewed as the primary caretaker of the children, and generally will be in the stronger position for primary custody.

If you go into court with the attitude that you are more worthy because of your income and education, you will get shot down, BADLY. If you go into court with the attitude that you should have primary custody because she is "emotionally immature" because she didn't make the same choices that you made, again, you will get shot down very badly.

One way or another you and mom are going to have to share the children if you divorce. That's reality.

The other reality is that you make a ton more money than mom does, and that means that you are unlikely to walk away from things without paying support.

[CourtClerk]

Originally Posted by LdiJ

CC...when you were doing all of that did your son's father want to be seriously involved and assume primary custody?

I seem to remember that it was not the case for you at that time.

The other parent in my situation THOUGHT he was the primary caretaker and yes, I went to the point where we were going to fight. Let's just say, I probably wasn't the bright and shining example of coparenting back then. We had a custody battle (where I kicked his behind....twice), but that's my situation, a different story for a different day.

In other words, yeah, Ld, I've BTDT. I know of which I speak.

[StampGirl]

Originally Posted by LdiJ

Please re-read what I wrote, and then imagine yourself in court having to explain your lifestyle to a judge who knows nothing about you. Then imagine what your wife's arguments to the judge will be.

A judge very possibly WILL assume that because you work and study that you will have no time for your children...or not enough time for your children to assume primary custody.

You are SO far off base LD, you aren't even in the ball park anymore. I am insulted.

Interesting.... a judge saw fit that I have physcial custody and (oh my gosh the horror), I hold a full time job, go to school full time (online) etc. I have MORE than enough time for ALL of my children including my step-son.

No judge in this day and age of online-learning will ASSUME anything that he has no time. That is the most antiquated ridiculous thing I have seen you type.