What Laws to Judges have to abide by?

[Lorane]

What is the name of your state? Missouri

Why are judges allowed do what they want with no reguard to the law? Alimony should only be given sparingly. Lifetime alimony should only be granted to someone who is truly disabled.

I have personally watched a case for the last 8 years where the court has failed to rule by the law. Lifetime alimony was awarded to this man's ex, only due to the judges discretion. This man lost his job and has had to take a job for $40,000 less a year. He petitioned the court to stop alimony. His decease of $40,000 in income is not mentioned anywhere in the judge's decree, which did not eliminate the alimony, but hardly reduced the amount.

Judgements have been accepted in the past due to the legal system, but with the greater numbers of ethical people graduating with Masters Degrees and PHD's, the system can and will be tested.

Citizens with professional knowledge and sense of personal integrity, will put it ahead of the strange status quo, and we will see truth and justice out of the system.

[bulldogg70]

ok, well ummm, you could have put your motions in before the hearing to get a complete understanding on how the Judge rules and how he made his conclusions. Further, if there is a point of law that the Judge errered on you can ask for a reconsideration or appeal it, had it been properly objected to during the hearing. Judges do not get a free ride to do what ever, they have power but there clearly are checks and balances.

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by Lorane

What is the name of your state? Missouri

Why are judges allowed do what they want with no reguard to the law? Alimony should only be given sparingly. Lifetime alimony should only be granted to someone who is truly disabled.

I have personally watched a case for the last 8 years where the court has failed to rule by the law. Lifetime alimony was awarded to this man's ex, only due to the judges discretion. This man lost his job and has had to take a job for $40,000 less a year. He petitioned the court to stop alimony. His decease of $40,000 in income is not mentioned anywhere in the judge's decree, which did not eliminate the alimony, but hardly reduced the amount.

Judgements have been accepted in the past due to the legal system, but with the greater numbers of ethical people graduating with Masters Degrees and PHD's, the system can and will be tested.

Citizens with professional knowledge and sense of personal integrity, will put it ahead of the strange status quo, and we will see truth and justice out of the system.

Well I can certainly think of quite a few scenarios where permanent alimony is not only justified, but in my opinion, DEMANDED. I will give you one example:

Two people get married. The wife supports her husband in getting his education and his career or helps him build a business. She sacrificies, cuts coupons does without in the beginning. At his request or with his approval she stays home and cares for their children. Their children grow up and go out on their own. The woman is then old enough that the ability to get an education and start a career that can truly make her independent is greatly diminished, if not almost impossible. Health insurance costs alone are staggering for her. Then her husband decides to dump her for a younger woman. Does she deserve permanent alimony.?...YOU BETCHA.

[bulldogg70]

hmmm, I think they made a movie about this, "waiting to exhale ! ! ! "

[Lorane]

LdiJ,
I did all those things and worked at the same time, but I was taught that life deals some pretty cruel things so alway be prepared. I am owed 18 years of back child support and the courts did not even offer alimony of any sort. I was not quite 40 and had to start over. I took the children, left the house (which was in both names) and helped my children to be as happy with life as possible. I did not teach them to ever say or do anything disrespectful to their father. This man is an alcoholic and became very abusive at times.

He is now a very lonely man, but still has his castle. He also cleaned out the savings account. All I received out of the marriage was half of the equity in the house and my car. I did not receive any of the furniture, my jewerly, clothing or the kids belongings.

My main interest was the children and the children growing up without hate in their hearts. My children have turned out to be great adults. They have had problems along the way, but are dealing with life.

I did not show the children or the courts, that becaused my marriage failed, I wanted to be vindictive. From reading this and other forums vindictiveness is the game. No one owns anyone else. You can't make someone love you if they don't. And no one leaves a marriage if they are happy.

[Bitter Mom]

I am asking for spousal support indefinitely and don't feel a bit bad about it. I am going through a divorce that I didn't want. I have a disabled child who may never be independant. I had to forgo employment to take care of my daughter. I'm not going to go into all the details but my daughter cannot go to daycare because of the nature of her disability. Alimony is determined case by case, as it should be. I am not disabled but I feel more than justified in asking for alimony. If my stb ex loses a job or takes a pay cut, he can just take on an additional job or search for something better...

[nextwife]

Originally Posted by LdiJ

The woman is then old enough that the ability to get an education and start a career that can truly make her independent is greatly diminished, if not almost impossible. Health insurance costs alone are staggering for her. Then her husband decides to dump her for a younger woman. Does she deserve permanent alimony.?...YOU BETCHA.

MY personal belief is that too many woman are in way to much of a hurry to stop learning and start making babies. Better to first know how to take care of OURSELVES before we start trying to take care of someone else. If you enter a marriage with your own job competance and assets, retirement plans, it is MUCH easier to walk away from any bad relationship. And we also then enter our marriages as very equal partners with more self assurance and personal capability.

Anyway, I'm curious to know how old is "too old". My single sister went back to school at age 40, and got a Masters from Yale, and she's no genius. So at 40 she started a wonderful, high paying career that allows her to do the traveling she likes to do.

My mom at 42 went back to work, after raising three kids, because my dad had been disabled with a brain tumor. She had never gone to college and still got a decent job.

Woman are far more capable than many of them are willing to accept. It demeans us to act as though we are too dense when we get toward 40 or so to learn a new carrer. Men start over in new carrers at that age. Woman are no less capable than any man. I know men whose family businesses failed or closed and they went out and just DID something completely different. Sales is a great arena for woman because we are not limited in what we can make. Woman are in Commercial Real Estate, Car sales, furniture sales. There are many areas where a person with no advanced degree can make good money. I know people in mortgage lending making big bucks.

To BitterMom - I deal with many parents of kids with moderate to very severe disablities. Hopefully you have used the Early Intervention Birth to Three programs and obtained an IEP through the school district. They are mandated to provide one for a special needs child. You have rights to obtain services for your child. If your school district is failing to work with you, you need to seek some special needs advocacy. Your child may very well be entitled to services you are not utilizing. There are daycares that serve the needs of very special needs children. In my area, for example, The St. Francis Children's Activity Center is a great resource. [url]http://www.sfcckids.org[/url]

Perhaps they can refer you to such resources in your area?

[Lorane]

Bitter Mom, Your justification isn't rational. What about those of us who have parents or in-laws who have come down with cancer, heart problems, mental problems. We still have to work and support the parents also. Many people are put in difficult situations, but still have to work. If you yourself were disabled, then and only then should you receive lifetime alimony. Your child will get lifetime child support. Your child's father has enough responsiblity for the child without being burden with your well being.

My neighbor next door was married for 20 years, she got the house and receives lifetime child support because their daughter is mentally handicapped. She is a very sweet child, but her mother works for a law firm and does everything in her power to make life less stressful. Yes, the child's grandparents also help out.

I had to normal children and no one to help out. Parents were deceased and in-laws did not want them, because I was not his first wife. The children did nothing to deserve that type of attitude from anyone. It's really sad how many people only care about someone only if they are blood and certain conditions exist.

Use the temporary alimony to get into something you really would like to do and go to work for your own well being. It teaches one the worth of things, gives meaning to what you can achieve and makes the world a better to live. Take the responsibility for yourself no one owes you anything.

[Bitter Mom]

Originally Posted by nextwife

To BitterMom - I deal with many parents of kids with moderate to very severe disablities. Hopefully you have used the Early Intervention Birth to Three programs and obtained an IEP through the school district. They are mandated to provide one for a special needs child. You have rights to obtain services for your child. If your school district is failing to work with you, you need to seek some special needs advocacy.

Yes I have used both First Steps and my daughter does attend the Dev Preschool through the school and she does have an IEP. She attends M-TH for 3 hours each day.

Your child may very well be entitled to services you are not utilizing. There are daycares that serve the needs of very special needs children. In my area, for example, The St. Francis Children's Activity Center is a great resource. [url]http://www.sfcckids.org[/url]

Perhaps they can refer you to such resources in your area?

I will have to check into the St Francis Children's Activity Center. Thank you for that information. I hope I can find some additional resources. That would really be great! I just want to make it clear that I would love to get out there and get a job. Believe it or not, it gets lonely here. I have run into daycare issues due to the severity of aggression which is one of my daughters many symptons of severe autism. She just ripped 2 of her lower front teeth out Thanksgiving night by getting angry, latching onto something and yanking it out of her mouth. This is just one example of self injurious behavior. My daughter is ICF certified. I could opt to have her institutionalized so I can work but cannot nor will not do so, as she means the world to me. I therefor, gave up my life of working along w/ the perks that come along w/ earning a dollar. I do plan on getting back to school to further my education when my daughter starts school FT. If I can get that out of the way I can start my career in teaching and be available for her on school breaks, summer and for the many hours of after school therapies.

[nextwife]

My daughter is not severly SNs, and not at all autistic (she is very communicative and thrives on adult attention), but she is a Post Institutionalized child who came to us nonverbal at 25 months. We have dealt with an alphabet soup of typical orphanage behaviors such a PTSD, ODD, hypervigilance, impulsivity,very ADHD, delayed motor, emotional and developmental levels, plus hearing deficits and visual problems.

I can tell you that she is Jeckl and Hyde when off-meds. Contrary to ill-informed presumptions, the need for meds has nothing to do with parenting skills and everything to do with imbalances in the brain. Do seek psychiatric consultation. I know that my child is much "happier" with herself, able to better control what she does, and able to better "attend" when on her meds. Off meds, it's like she was replaced with a look alike.

[Bitter Mom]

Thank you for your concern nextwife. We do see a psychiatrist at the Autism Clinic through our childrens hospital. My daughter is on meds and although the difference is huge she is still very out of control. We(Drs and I) have tried several different meds and dosages. She is on the one that helped her most and on the highest dosage she can take. Before this med it was nothing for her to put her head through the window, bite a chunk out of her own flesh or poke holes in her legs by jabbing her fingernails into them over and over. I, too,can tell a difference when I don't get the meds to her on time. Forget not getting them, I would never let that happen. I don't think I could handle that again. Prayers for patience has worked thus far but I need her to be medicated as awful as that may sound. However, there is only so much meds can do. Good luck and God bless for taking care of that
precious child.

Originally Posted by Lorane

Bitter Mom, Your justification isn't rational. What about those of us who have parents or in-laws who have come down with cancer, heart problems, mental problems. We still have to work and support the parents also. Many people are put in difficult situations, but still have to work. If you yourself were disabled, then and only then should you receive lifetime alimony. Your child will get lifetime child support. Your child's father has enough responsiblity for the child without being burden with your well being.

Uh oh, now ya got me started! I don't think I am being irrational at all. As you can see by my previous post I feel I have a parental duty to my daughter and that does not include sending her off to some institution. I truly feel for those whose parents have problems but this is my kid we're talking about. She has nobody but me. I have NO help at all. Nope, not even her dad. I'm sorry if this ticks you off but you will never convince me that I am not entitled. If my husband didn't want to pay spousal support than he should've stuck it out until I became able to support our family. My user name may be Bitter Mom but I am not bitter anymore. I believe you are the bitter one and have a biased opinion because your husband has to hand over his money to the ex. The judge has ruled and evidently he/she feels the ex is entitled. Get over it.

My neighbor next door was married for 20 years, she got the house and receives lifetime child support because their daughter is mentally handicapped. She is a very sweet child, but her mother works for a law firm and does everything in her power to make life less stressful. Yes, the child's grandparents also help out.

I was foolish not to take the house too. I was like you, I took nothing. This woman seems very intelligent in that aspect. I don't see anything wrong with lifetime child support in her case either. The child is evidentally going to be dependant on the mother for the rest of her life. There are circumstances such as this where, although she may be grown, she still is, in fact, a child even if it is mentally. Age doesn't matter in this regard. I am glad this woman is capable of employment. I, at this particular time, am not. I mentioned in an earlier post that I will be working towards my career, when the time is right which is when my daughter is in school FT. I will then work for as long as I can. More than likely this will be until my daughter reaches age 22 which is when kids like mine are no longer eligible to receive services through the school. If at that time she continues to be dependant I will once again forgo employment at, yes, the expense of her father as it takes more than cs to make ends meet.

I had to normal children and no one to help out. Parents were deceased and in-laws did not want them, because I was not his first wife. The children did nothing to deserve that type of attitude from anyone. It's really sad how many people only care about someone only if they are blood and certain conditions exist.

Be glad you have 2 normal children. Had yours been like mine you might've institutionalized them so you could go to work. OR maybe you wouldn't be running your mouth. Hmmm...now that's food for thought. As far as your kids go , no they didn't deserve that and neither do mine. Luckily my parents aren't deceased but that doesn't mean they should forgo their employment just so I can go to work so my stb ex doesn't have to pay spousal support.

Use the temporary alimony to get into something you really would like to do and go to work for your own well being. It teaches one the worth of things, gives meaning to what you can achieve and makes the world a better to live. Take the responsibility for yourself no one owes you anything.

I do plan on making use of my life and earning that golden dollar. Never said that I wouldn't. May not be able to work in the future so I had to cover all bases in my decree. I know the worth of things. I came from a well established family with money and have now gone poor. I know both sides. I have worked in the past, before my daughter was born. I don't want everything handed over. I just want to survive. Also as far as knowing the worth. I know I am worth more programming my daughter now. Yes, programming her. Things aren't just learned by my daughter she has had to be taught every little thing that other people just pick up. Don't take everything for granted and learn how to put yourself in someone elses shoes before you start in next time.

My intial repsonse was to point out that there are many different reasons that women may be entitled to spousal support and that although some who claim it are lazy or worthless, some of us are not. Sometimes spousal maintenance is more than justified.

BTW, I do feel as if I am owed. He bailed and I am stuck. He can work, whereas I cannot. He can have nice things and my kids can't. Bologna! So there you have it. Like it or not... Bet the judge agrees with me on this one.

[Lorane]

Children like your's do need special care. My cousin, who lives in Topeka, has joined goups to help with the care and well being of her son. He is in a wheel chair and plays with string for hours. She has held a full time job and makes time to work with groups who specialize in this are and in her "spare time" is getting training and help for the child. He does not speak and can not walk. So I do know what you are going through.

All I am saying is that you can get the support covered through child support and use alimony for a specified time period to get your life on track. I wish you the best possible outcome.

[Bitter Mom]

Lorane,
I really am sorry that I bit your head off yesterday. I was having a terrible day. I can understand why you feel the way you do about this subject. I just wanted to point out that we are not all bad people. I appreciate your input on these groups you mentioned. I am still somewhat new to the area in which I live and have been looking for information about services in my area. Nextwife mentioned something yesterday that I had not heard of. Today I will be checking into that. It seems as if when I think I have come to a deadend someone mentions something that I didn't know about. Thank God for that.

I really do intend on using my time wisely in the aspect of furthering my education so that I may teach in special services. My first choice would've been to go into therapy of some sort but I don't have the time to get a Masters in such a short period of time. Although, I would like to try to pursue education for that PT in the future. My daughters therapists have made a tremendous improvement in our everyday lives. Sometimes while watching therapy outside the room through the mirrored window I just cry because my daughter now has some form of communication, not conversation but a few words. I can't imagine how it must feel not to be able to communicate to someone what you need or how you feel. I can't think of anything being more satisfactory than knowing that I helped someone in that way.

At any rate, good luck to you. I don't know the whole story about what it is you're going through but if this ex isn't in one of the few situations whereas she is truly entitled to spousal maintenance then I hope something can be done for you and yours. And thank you...

[LdiJ]

Originally Posted by nextwife

MY personal belief is that too many woman are in way to much of a hurry to stop learning and start making babies. Better to first know how to take care of OURSELVES before we start trying to take care of someone else. If you enter a marriage with your own job competance and assets, retirement plans, it is MUCH easier to walk away from any bad relationship. And we also then enter our marriages as very equal partners with more self assurance and personal capability.

Anyway, I'm curious to know how old is "too old". My single sister went back to school at age 40, and got a Masters from Yale, and she's no genius. So at 40 she started a wonderful, high paying career that allows her to do the traveling she likes to do.

My mom at 42 went back to work, after raising three kids, because my dad had been disabled with a brain tumor. She had never gone to college and still got a decent job.

Woman are far more capable than many of them are willing to accept. It demeans us to act as though we are too dense when we get toward 40 or so to learn a new carrer. Men start over in new carrers at that age. Woman are no less capable than any man. I know men whose family businesses failed or closed and they went out and just DID something completely different. Sales is a great arena for woman because we are not limited in what we can make. Woman are in Commercial Real Estate, Car sales, furniture sales. There are many areas where a person with no advanced degree can make good money. I know people in mortgage lending making big bucks.

To BitterMom - I deal with many parents of kids with moderate to very severe disablities. Hopefully you have used the Early Intervention Birth to Three programs and obtained an IEP through the school district. They are mandated to provide one for a special needs child. You have rights to obtain services for your child. If your school district is failing to work with you, you need to seek some special needs advocacy. Your child may very well be entitled to services you are not utilizing. There are daycares that serve the needs of very special needs children. In my area, for example, The St. Francis Children's Activity Center is a great resource. [url]http://www.sfcckids.org[/url]

Perhaps they can refer you to such resources in your area?

Actually...I was thinking of women a little older than that. What's possible at 40 is far less possible at 50. Its not that a woman can't go back to school and get the necessary qualifications for a career.....its that whether or not its admitted, there is still age discrimination when it comes to hiring.