700 "stolen" pumpkins

[joesfcfohio]

Chagrin Falls, Ohio

In the small town of Chagrin Falls, Ohio, the high school upperclassmen have a tradition known as the Pumpkin Roll. This includes obtaining as many pumpkins as you can in the month of October, and at an unplanned date near halloween, the juniors and seniors get together and smash them on the steep hill in town late at night and sled down on the goo.
This has been going on for many years and the local police don't make much of an effort to stop it. They simply block off the street which the hill is located on and arrest those who get way out of line (underage drinking before the event is common).

This year, pumpkins for the upcoming event were being stored in a student's barn. Pumpkins are typically collected by the upperclassmen by swiping them from doorsteps.
There were more than 700 pumpkins located in this barn when a kid who had been out "pumpkining", as the theft is called, was pulled over after he unloaded his stolen pumpkins at the barn. The police said that someone had his license plate number and witnessed him thieving their pumpkins. The police asked for them to be returned so the kid led the police back to the barn full of pumpkins.

The police have a pretty good idea about how they got there and of course what they are for, and now want them taken to the police department, supposedly to give away to the community. They also have threatened the owner of the property they were stored on with grand theft or accepting stolen goods if the pumpkins don't make it to the police department

My question is: do they have the legal right to do that?

They only have a witness to a single pumpkin theft. They have only circumstantial evidence that the other pumpkins in the barn are stolen, a few complaints of stolen pumpkins, and the knowledge of "pumpkining" and the pumpkin roll tradition.

It has been almost a week and the pumpkins remain in the barn. My guess is if the police department had the legal permission to remove them from the property they would have done so by now. I think they are simply using scare tactics to get the owner of the property to give them the go-ahead to take them.

700 pumpkins is a good number of pumpkins...it'd be nice if we didn't have to surrender them to the police so that we could use them for the pumpkin roll...do we have that right?

do they have the right to demand we return these pumpkins they suspect are stolen?

[Silverplum]

Oh, you are too stupid for words. It's truly sad. You have no brains and no moral sense, certainly no common sense.

Originally Posted by joesfcfohio

Chagrin Falls, Ohio

In the small town of Chagrin Falls, Ohio, the high school upperclassmen have a tradition known as the Pumpkin Roll. This includes obtaining as many pumpkins as you can in the month of October, and at an unplanned date near halloween, the juniors and seniors get together and smash them on the steep hill in town late at night and sled down on the goo.
This has been going on for many years and the local police don't make much of an effort to stop it. They simply block off the street which the hill is located on and arrest those who get way out of line (underage drinking before the event is common).

This year, pumpkins for the upcoming event were being stored in a student's barn. Pumpkins are typically collected by the upperclassmen by swiping them from doorsteps.
There were more than 700 pumpkins located in this barn when a kid who had been out "pumpkining", as the theft is called, was pulled over after he unloaded his stolen pumpkins at the barn. The police said that someone had his license plate number and witnessed him thieving their pumpkins. The police asked for them to be returned so the kid led the police back to the barn full of pumpkins.

The police have a pretty good idea about how they got there and of course what they are for, and now want them taken to the police department, supposedly to give away to the community. They also have threatened the owner of the property they were stored on with grand theft or accepting stolen goods if the pumpkins don't make it to the police department

My question is: do they have the legal right to do that?

They only have a witness to a single pumpkin theft. They have only circumstantial evidence that the other pumpkins in the barn are stolen, a few complaints of stolen pumpkins, and the knowledge of "pumpkining" and the pumpkin roll tradition.

It has been almost a week and the pumpkins remain in the barn. My guess is if the police department had the legal permission to remove them from the property they would have done so by now. I think they are simply using scare tactics to get the owner of the property to give them the go-ahead to take them.

700 pumpkins is a good number of pumpkins...it'd be nice if we didn't have to surrender them to the police so that we could use them for the pumpkin roll...do we have that right?

do they have the right to demand we return these pumpkins they suspect are stolen?

[tranquility]

While proof may be difficult, yes, the pumpkins are stolen and they do have the "right".

But, here's an idea, get a bunch of trucks together and give them the pumpkins. It would serve them right. Just bring them in to where they want them and dump them there. Be sure to take pictures for the press. Tell them that you're going to have to take their word that they're stolen as all you know is that people are just bringing you pumpkins for the roll. Be sure to ask for a receipt and ask they return all the pumpkins they find that are not stolen so you can have the roll.

[LegalStranger]

Originally Posted by Silverplum

Oh, you are too stupid for words. It's truly sad. You have no brains and no moral sense, certainly no common sense.

AAHH lighten up Sugar Plum, sounds like fun 2 me rollin' down a hill with a bunch of smashed pumpkins.

[joesfcfohio]

I didn't expect people to see past the fact of teenage mischief (yes, aka crime, I'm aware)

I'll just ask another question.

Given the above situation, if the pumpkins are removed from the barn and not returned to the police department, can or will they charge the owner of the property on the "evidence" they have (had, since the pumpkins are gone), given the condition that the owner had nothing to do with their removal?

[garrula lingua]

Tranq's advice was great.

BTW, why screw around with potential charges ?
If you're dealing with hard-heads in law enforcement & court, y'all could wind up with a criminal record for some mischief.
Why don't y'all just ask for donations for the roll, and post that notice on the barn (at least that offers the barn owner some protection).

[tranquility]

Can they charge? Maybe. As it is, the pumpkins are not really that good of evidence as who would recognize their own pum[kin? The evidence is the testimony linking the theft to the location. Will they charge? Even though the police are not the prosecutors, pissing off the police tends to make bad things happen. The roll can die very quickly when an aggressive police presence makes it not very fun.

Of more import is your story about "not knowing anything". Destruction of evidence is something the police and the prosecutors don't think very highly of. Having a defense of "Gee, willikers, those bazillion pumpkins were here just a minute ago." may actually fly in court. But, it may not fly to keep you from getting there. And, that can be very expensive.

You have risk here. Possession of stolen property is a felony. Destroying evidence related to that is a serious crime as well. Your only defense is that you didn't know the property was stolen. (Smile, wink, wink.) It may be hard to prove that you had the intent to possess stolen property, but, let's face it, you're guilty. You've admitted as much on the list. Teenage mischief is not a defense. Disappearing all the pumpkins is only going to piss everyone off, who seem to be treating this like what it is--now.

[nub]

Please have a heart. I am not normally all worried about this sort of thing, however; this year my 11 year old daughter grew her own pumpkin. She was so proud of it. It gave her pride that she could grow something from a tiny seed into a pumpking over 20 lbs. This is evening we returned from her soccer game to find it, along with 2 other purchased pumpkins, gone. I have no idea who did it. But, she is now heart-broken. Now, she doesn't think it was worth the effort of keeping the plant alive all summer along.

I am sure that some 'kid' (be it high-school or college) took it just to have some fun and so thinks it is harmless. But it has taugh my daughter a lesson. A hard lesson.

So please, don't think just about the 'kids' that are just having fun. Think about the pumpkins and where they came from and who they really belong to. Then realize that you are advocating someone getting away with theft. I hope the authorities are able to prove who stole them and how they did it. And I hope that charges are filed. It is obvious that whoever did it has a decent bit of growing up to do.

But I can guarantee you that I know one 'kid' who will never steal a pumpkin.

nub

Originally Posted by joesfcfohio

Chagrin Falls, Ohio

In the small town of Chagrin Falls, Ohio, the high school upperclassmen have a tradition known as the Pumpkin Roll. This includes obtaining as many pumpkins as you can in the month of October, and at an unplanned date near halloween, the juniors and seniors get together and smash them on the steep hill in town late at night and sled down on the goo.
This has been going on for many years and the local police don't make much of an effort to stop it. They simply block off the street which the hill is located on and arrest those who get way out of line (underage drinking before the event is common).

This year, pumpkins for the upcoming event were being stored in a student's barn. Pumpkins are typically collected by the upperclassmen by swiping them from doorsteps.
There were more than 700 pumpkins located in this barn when a kid who had been out "pumpkining", as the theft is called, was pulled over after he unloaded his stolen pumpkins at the barn. The police said that someone had his license plate number and witnessed him thieving their pumpkins. The police asked for them to be returned so the kid led the police back to the barn full of pumpkins.

The police have a pretty good idea about how they got there and of course what they are for, and now want them taken to the police department, supposedly to give away to the community. They also have threatened the owner of the property they were stored on with grand theft or accepting stolen goods if the pumpkins don't make it to the police department

My question is: do they have the legal right to do that?

They only have a witness to a single pumpkin theft. They have only circumstantial evidence that the other pumpkins in the barn are stolen, a few complaints of stolen pumpkins, and the knowledge of "pumpkining" and the pumpkin roll tradition.

It has been almost a week and the pumpkins remain in the barn. My guess is if the police department had the legal permission to remove them from the property they would have done so by now. I think they are simply using scare tactics to get the owner of the property to give them the go-ahead to take them.

700 pumpkins is a good number of pumpkins...it'd be nice if we didn't have to surrender them to the police so that we could use them for the pumpkin roll...do we have that right?

do they have the right to demand we return these pumpkins they suspect are stolen?

[Bretagne]

Sheesh. Lighten up Nub. I agree there's been a "crime", and I'm sorry for your daughter I guess, but the context of the poster's message leads me to believe that the annual pumpkin-swipe is a town tradition. When all are aware of such a tradition, then all are on notice not to keep their pumpkins on the porch where they are so clearly an attractive nuisance.

Viva la tradicion!!

[CdwJava]

All because it is a "tradition" does NOT make it legal. Senior "ditch day" is also a "tradition", but is also illegal. And stealing anyone's property is a crime.

Check these links to the story:

[url]http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=57955[/url]

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpkin_roll[/url]

- Carl

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by Bretagne

Sheesh. Lighten up Nub. I agree there's been a "crime", and I'm sorry for your daughter I guess, but the context of the poster's message leads me to believe that the annual pumpkin-swipe is a town tradition. When all are aware of such a tradition, then all are on notice not to keep their pumpkins on the porch where they are so clearly an attractive nuisance.

Viva la tradicion!!

Golly, I guess theft, plunder and pillage should be excused, too! What about nights of "wildings" in New York? Heck, it's a tradition! So beware if you are a woman and walk through Central park at night!

There is no excuse for a criminal act. Because the community tolerates it to some degree does not make it lawful, it only means that since no one is complaining about the thefts no one is concerning themselves with the issue.

Should the person whose home gets ripped off be blamed because they left a window or door unlocked, or failed to buy a deadbolt? Should the victim be blamed if their car gets stolen because they did not have a kill switch inside? How far does the 'blame the victim' attitude go?

There are ways to keep the evnt perfectly on the up-and-up and I'd venture to guess that most the pumpkins are obtained in just such a manner. The fastest way to simply KILL this "tradition" will be to associate it with crime. The police CAN shut the hill (a roadway) down if they want to ... and people CAN be arrested for tossing the pumpkins down the hill and sliding on them. So far, the community CHOOSES not to stop it ... keep pissing people off, and they will.

- Carl

[Bretagne]

CdwJava: You are not positing a logical argument here. Are you honestly comparing an annual day of hooliganisim to gang rape? Also, there are many excuses for criminal acts. They're called affirmative defenses. Finally, I agree with you that the wisest course of action here is obviously to abide by the law in order to secure a fun time and good will in the community. But you're making "blame the victim" accusations? Please. Let's keep some perspective when talking about crime victims because I'm sure women who have been violently beaten and gang raped are really going to appreciate being compared with a pumpkin. Seriously.

By the way, didn't the convictions of almost all of the alleged "wilding" rapists and assailants get overturned? Wasn't there only one person who committed the beatings and rapes? I'm not being facetious, I just don't remember.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by Bretagne

CdwJava: You are not positing a logical argument here. Are you honestly comparing an annual day of hooliganisim to gang rape?

No, I am not. But the analogy is apt since a tradition does not justify crime - ANY crime.

Also, there are many excuses for criminal acts. They're called affirmative defenses.

If you stole my pumpkin from my yard so that you could roll it down a hill, where is the lawful defense?

Finally, I agree with you that the wisest course of action here is obviously to abide by the law in order to secure a fun time and good will in the community. But you're making "blame the victim" accusations?

No ... YOU did:

(quote from Bretagne): "When all are aware of such a tradition, then all are on notice not to keep their pumpkins on the porch where they are so clearly an attractive nuisance."

Clearly you imply that the owner of the pumpkin needs to leave the pumpkin on the porch to avoid getting it stolen. This is a ridiculous concept, and it sure does blame the victim because it implies that the victim of a theft is responsible if they leave their property out where it can be stolen.

I prefer to blame the thief.

By the way, didn't the convictions of almost all of the alleged "wilding" rapists and assailants get overturned?

In the one publicized case? Some did as I recall. But similar incidents still occur and in some cases they are considered to be a right of initiation ... it's a tradition - and the victims should know better than to walk alone at night in Central Park.

- Carl

[eloxley]

Originally Posted by joesfcfohio

Chagrin Falls, Ohio

In the small town of Chagrin Falls, Ohio, the high school upperclassmen have a tradition known as the Pumpkin Roll. This includes obtaining as many pumpkins as you can in the month of October, and at an unplanned date near halloween, the juniors and seniors get together and smash them on the steep hill in town late at night and sled down on the goo.
This has been going on for many years and the local police don't make much of an effort to stop it. They simply block off the street which the hill is located on and arrest those who get way out of line (underage drinking before the event is common).

This year, pumpkins for the upcoming event were being stored in a student's barn. Pumpkins are typically collected by the upperclassmen by swiping them from doorsteps.
There were more than 700 pumpkins located in this barn when a kid who had been out "pumpkining", as the theft is called, was pulled over after he unloaded his stolen pumpkins at the barn. The police said that someone had his license plate number and witnessed him thieving their pumpkins. The police asked for them to be returned so the kid led the police back to the barn full of pumpkins.

The police have a pretty good idea about how they got there and of course what they are for, and now want them taken to the police department, supposedly to give away to the community. They also have threatened the owner of the property they were stored on with grand theft or accepting stolen goods if the pumpkins don't make it to the police department

My question is: do they have the legal right to do that?

They only have a witness to a single pumpkin theft. They have only circumstantial evidence that the other pumpkins in the barn are stolen, a few complaints of stolen pumpkins, and the knowledge of "pumpkining" and the pumpkin roll tradition.

It has been almost a week and the pumpkins remain in the barn. My guess is if the police department had the legal permission to remove them from the property they would have done so by now. I think they are simply using scare tactics to get the owner of the property to give them the go-ahead to take them.

700 pumpkins is a good number of pumpkins...it'd be nice if we didn't have to surrender them to the police so that we could use them for the pumpkin roll...do we have that right?

do they have the right to demand we return these pumpkins they suspect are stolen?

I can't even believe I saw this post here! As a former graduate of CF, I remember the pumpkin roll well. "Back in my day" it truly WAS illegal - a highly guarded secret that only the seniors knew about. We spent weeks gathering the pumpkins, and frankly, the area farmers knew to expect us. No one but us knew when the event was going to be, and no one knew we were there until the next morning. Now, from what I hear anyway, the police actually block off the street (heaven forbid anyone get hurt!), and parents show up with cameras to document the night for posterity. I can't believe, given the area's recent acceptance and need to be involved in the roll, that the police would do anything. How could they, and then show up the night of the roll like always? I think it would honestly cause too much uproar for them to do anything at all. They're probably just humoring the property owner that saw the "thief." Don't worry about it.

Cripe, now even Ted Batchelor gets a PERMIT for his falls jump!

Have a great time! My kids still think I'm crazy when I tell them about digging pumpkin guts out of my ears for days ...!

Go Tigers!

[Shay-Pari'e]

Truly sad. All those little kids tripping over each other because there is no lit candle. OH! I also love driving over all the smashed pumpkins the day after.

GO SENIORS! YOU RULE!