What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?GA My friend(MB)is in jail and was appointed an attorney. I researched him & he has highest rate of guilty pleas in the County.Met w/him 4 days after arrest(>72hrs). I called him trying to help, I have a lot of info about the case (I just started work as PI - passed exam but I work insurance- not criminal so I am clueless). I told the atty I would help in any way I could, since I know reduced fee from the County same way a PI would. I would do ANYTHING to help. MB in jail for 26 days before 1st appearance before a judge for preliminary hearing. I had A LOT of evidence contradicting the Detective's testimony, including documented proof the time line he testified to was completely inaccurate, and a recording (GA is one party state) of him getting info he denied knowing about. He told me I was bothering him, so I stopped calling, but I wrote everything I thought could help and sent it to him. MB started calling to discuss upcoming bond hearing. (at 45 days in jail)3 wks of unanswered calls...he goes to bond hearing - doesn't even have 5 minutes with lawyer before hearing to discuss ANYTHING: lawyer doesn't question detective about any statements from the preliminary hearing - even if he didn't discredit detective (he said cops have too many cases to remember everything) he could have raised serious issues regarding the validity of the allegations; He calls two of the four witnesses for character, who only even showed up because I asked them to (father and boss)because he had no contact with MB from Preliminary Hearing until Bond Hearing. NONE – not 5 minutes, nothing! He puts MB on the stand (obviously no prep/prior knowledge that he would even testify) allows DA to question him about prior arrests, none relating to this case or relevant in any way to the charges. In Georgia I thought that was inadmissible, unless he opened the door with his own questions? MB got no bond, and no discussion, not even 5 minutes to let him ask a question...MB is in jail now 72 days. I finally call atty to ask him to please contact MB to discuss next step. He sends MB a letter stating MB admitted to him something he NEVER did, infers he is guilty by facetious language and punctuation, extremely unprofessional. Tells MB in letter if witness testifies (who I have documented cases of her previous history to be untruthful) he will stay in jail for 15 years. Comments like "she lies, yeah...we'll see” despite the fact that I had given him names and numbers of witnesses who could verify a long history of this witness not telling the truth. Writes in letter “I do not need to discuss strategy with you” as well as comments on MB’s handwriting and spelling (he is dyslexic) and tells him to “write” back if he is capable. Tells him he will never talk to me again and MB can deal with how things are can get new atty for $50K or $70K if they have to deal with me-calls me CRAZY! I find out he has called me Crazy to other people involved in the case as well. Yeah, I'm zealous, but I have done nothing but try to help this case and push the lawyer to look at options. Okay, I admit when I don't understand something, I ask questions, which seemed to really bother him. I really care about MB and hate watching him lose everything (job, home, truck) because he is in jail on a charge I absolutely believe him to be innocent of. Regardless of innocent or guilt, I feel this attorney has violated the Rules of Professional Conduct. I will file a complaint with the bar, but I would like to hold him responsible - for MB being in jail longer than necessary, for calling me Crazy, for being the bad seed that give really good lawyers a bad name. I have found a friend of a friend that is a lawyer and willing to help but he does not typically practice criminal law so he has asked me to help him research. Anything will be better than this PD. What I am trying to find out is if he is being held without the case being taken to the grand jury for 90 days, can he get out? I know we can file a Motion for Bond, but can they give him a bond that is unreasonable to make? Also, can information in the bond hearing or preliminary hearing be suppressed (i.e. info on prior arrests, etc) based on this attorney’s incompetence. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
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90 days no indictment, unethical lawyer
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seniorjudge
Senior Member
My understanding is that you do not like someone else's attorney.
You have no standing to complain.
If your friend wants to complain, that could be a different matter.
But you should just mind your own business.
You have no standing to complain.
If your friend wants to complain, that could be a different matter.
But you should just mind your own business.
Yes, he wants to complain, but is in jail with no internet access to access forums such as this one. First, I have Power of Attorney for him, so I do have the right to hire or fire an attorney on his behalf. Second, I am only doing, and have only done, what he has asked of me. I wish I could do more for him. He has no family and he continues to tell me I am the only person he can count on so I feel a lot of weight on my shoulders to try to help him by at least researching to see what the laws are. I speak to him almost on a daily basis (with pre-paid phone calls) and visit him weekly.
Do you know how long he can be held without an indictment and if so can you explain how that works?
I recognize that this lawyer is responsible for why the majority of lawyers, who are good and ethical, get such a bad name.
Do you know how long he can be held without an indictment and if so can you explain how that works?
I recognize that this lawyer is responsible for why the majority of lawyers, who are good and ethical, get such a bad name.
seniorjudge
Senior Member
Q: Do you know how long he can be held without an indictment and if so can you explain how that works?
A: Are you saying that he was arrested without a warrant and he is waiting for a grand jury to return an indictment?
What do you mean you have a power of attorney for him?
How did you get that POA?
Who drew it up for you?
A: Are you saying that he was arrested without a warrant and he is waiting for a grand jury to return an indictment?
What do you mean you have a power of attorney for him?
How did you get that POA?
Who drew it up for you?
In Georgia, even if you are arrested with a warrant, you have an arraignment within 72 hours, then a pretrial or committment hearing to show probable cause (by magistrate court) then bound over to superior court for felony, where you have a bond hearing. Then the case must be taken to the grand jury. I know it seems to not make sense, but research it if you like.
I had the POA as I was a legal assistant in an estate law firm for several years and it was a standard document we gave to all clients purchasing wills or trusts. It is a durable power of attorney (I also have one for health care) and it does state that I have the right to conduct business, including the retention or termination of lawyers, on his behalf. It is a document we actually had before any of this happened. He was once my fiance, but when that didn't work out, we remained best friends.
I have also volunteered paralegal services through the "Victims of Domestic Abuse" family law center, but I have never done anything with criminal law.
I don't assume to know nearly what a lawyer would, but I am diligent with research. I will work for hours and hours (and hours!)to find what I am looking for.
I do not think the appointed attorney in this case is in any way representative of PDs or lawyers in general!
It seems that GA does not have a time limit on indictments, although the federal guidelines in the Rules of Criminal Procedure are 90 days. GA only has a 180 day trial date. Unless anyone else can tell me different??
I had the POA as I was a legal assistant in an estate law firm for several years and it was a standard document we gave to all clients purchasing wills or trusts. It is a durable power of attorney (I also have one for health care) and it does state that I have the right to conduct business, including the retention or termination of lawyers, on his behalf. It is a document we actually had before any of this happened. He was once my fiance, but when that didn't work out, we remained best friends.
I have also volunteered paralegal services through the "Victims of Domestic Abuse" family law center, but I have never done anything with criminal law.
I don't assume to know nearly what a lawyer would, but I am diligent with research. I will work for hours and hours (and hours!)to find what I am looking for.
I do not think the appointed attorney in this case is in any way representative of PDs or lawyers in general!
It seems that GA does not have a time limit on indictments, although the federal guidelines in the Rules of Criminal Procedure are 90 days. GA only has a 180 day trial date. Unless anyone else can tell me different??
seniorjudge
Senior Member
What is the amount of his bond?
If a bond hasn't been set, why?
Is he on probation or parole? Does he have other cases or holds?
I'm not from Georgia. Can you point me toward the 90 day indictment rule you're talking about?
If it's similar to the one here in Texas, it gives a person the right to a personal bond or a bond in amount the def can afford, if he's been held in jail on a felony without an indictment for more than 90 days. It doesn't dismiss the charges, but it does get him out of jail. Which is still a good thing.
If a bond hasn't been set, why?
Is he on probation or parole? Does he have other cases or holds?
I'm not from Georgia. Can you point me toward the 90 day indictment rule you're talking about?
If it's similar to the one here in Texas, it gives a person the right to a personal bond or a bond in amount the def can afford, if he's been held in jail on a felony without an indictment for more than 90 days. It doesn't dismiss the charges, but it does get him out of jail. Which is still a good thing.
Thank you for the link, although that specific case won't help, it mentions many others that might! I really appreciate it.
As for the answers to the previous post - he was denied bond. Partly due to the nature of the crime I am sure, however his attorney did NOTHING at the bond hearing that would have helped him. He put him on the stand without even telling him that was a posibility, allowed him to be questioned about prior arrests (all dismissed) that had no relevance to this kind of case, did not cross examine the detective regarding testimony from the preliminary hearing that I had given him evidence of that was incorrect, and did not present any evidence that he would not be a flight risk or would be safe. In fact, in the Motion for Bond he did not include information I thought would be pertenant (like he has lived in this community all his life, never missed a court date of any kind, the company he worked for was holding his job for him, etc.) and he had information that was incorrect (the type of work he does and name of company, years and type of discharge from Navy, etc.). When I asked the lawyer about it and at least tried to provide him the correct information so he would be aware of it, he told me the motion was simply to get in front of the judge, it did not matter at all what was in the motion. In fact, no lie, he told me he could have stated that the defendant had "monkey breath" and it wouldn't matter. Now do you see why I felt this attorney was so unprofessional?
He is not on parole or probation and has never been convicted of a felony before.
I cannot find a statute in GA, which is what I was hoping to find from advice here on the message board, and will be researching the link just given to me so I'll let you know if I find it. What I have found is the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure and they state the 90 period, but I need to find something for GA.
Again, I appreciate so much all the help and advice!
As for the answers to the previous post - he was denied bond. Partly due to the nature of the crime I am sure, however his attorney did NOTHING at the bond hearing that would have helped him. He put him on the stand without even telling him that was a posibility, allowed him to be questioned about prior arrests (all dismissed) that had no relevance to this kind of case, did not cross examine the detective regarding testimony from the preliminary hearing that I had given him evidence of that was incorrect, and did not present any evidence that he would not be a flight risk or would be safe. In fact, in the Motion for Bond he did not include information I thought would be pertenant (like he has lived in this community all his life, never missed a court date of any kind, the company he worked for was holding his job for him, etc.) and he had information that was incorrect (the type of work he does and name of company, years and type of discharge from Navy, etc.). When I asked the lawyer about it and at least tried to provide him the correct information so he would be aware of it, he told me the motion was simply to get in front of the judge, it did not matter at all what was in the motion. In fact, no lie, he told me he could have stated that the defendant had "monkey breath" and it wouldn't matter. Now do you see why I felt this attorney was so unprofessional?
He is not on parole or probation and has never been convicted of a felony before.
I cannot find a statute in GA, which is what I was hoping to find from advice here on the message board, and will be researching the link just given to me so I'll let you know if I find it. What I have found is the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure and they state the 90 period, but I need to find something for GA.
Again, I appreciate so much all the help and advice!
I found it! He has to file a writ of habeas corpus, and here is the statute:
http://www.legis.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/gl_codes_detail.pl?code=17-7-50
Thanks again for all your help!
Any advice about what to do with the first terrible lawyer is welcome!
http://www.legis.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/gl_codes_detail.pl?code=17-7-50
Thanks again for all your help!
Any advice about what to do with the first terrible lawyer is welcome!
Welcome to Georgia.
*sigh*
While your frustration with the defendant's treatment and your anger at his attorney is certainly understandable, the truth is that there probably isn't a whole lot more that could have been done for him.
Under Georgia law, a defendant is entitled to a bond if his case isn't indicted or accused within 90 days. That means that, if bond is initially denied and the prosecutors haven't picked up a case within 90 days, the defendant can move for a bond and the court has to grant one. It doesn't mean it has to be a bond he can make ... it could, in fact, be an incredibly high bond. That's entirely up to the judge.
That's about the extent of a defendant's rights as far as an unindicted case goes. There's no such thing as a "speedy indictment" in Georgia. The prosecutors can hold a defendant until statute of limitations for the offense expires (7 years for most felonies, 10 for really serious ones, and forever for murder) without formally charging him. As a practical matter, is usually doesn't go beyond 120 days -- if it gets much longer than that, a judge will probably reduce bond to something the defendant can make.
A habeas motion isn't going to help -- from what you've written, the defendant's treatment may be unfair, but it's not unlawful.
At early court appearances (preliminary hearings, bond hearings), it's often not to the defendant's advantage to testify or put on a lot of evidence--the state doesn't have to show very evidence to keep holding the defendant, and whatever evidence the defense puts on goes on the record and might come back to hurt them at trial or later in the process.
I'm sure it must drive you nuts that the defendant's lawyer wasn't using the information you gave him, but it's likely that this just wasn't the right moment to use it. At bond hearings especially, a unsympathetic judge might be MORE likely to deny bond if he feels like the defense is "wasting his time" with information he doesn't feel is important. It sucks, but it's how it is.
If it goes 90 days and there's no indictment, a defendant can go back before a court and get a bond. That usually puts enough pressure on the DA's office to make them move forward. Right now, the best thing you can do is start getting in touch with people that could help make a bond once one gets set.
*sigh*
While your frustration with the defendant's treatment and your anger at his attorney is certainly understandable, the truth is that there probably isn't a whole lot more that could have been done for him.
Under Georgia law, a defendant is entitled to a bond if his case isn't indicted or accused within 90 days. That means that, if bond is initially denied and the prosecutors haven't picked up a case within 90 days, the defendant can move for a bond and the court has to grant one. It doesn't mean it has to be a bond he can make ... it could, in fact, be an incredibly high bond. That's entirely up to the judge.
That's about the extent of a defendant's rights as far as an unindicted case goes. There's no such thing as a "speedy indictment" in Georgia. The prosecutors can hold a defendant until statute of limitations for the offense expires (7 years for most felonies, 10 for really serious ones, and forever for murder) without formally charging him. As a practical matter, is usually doesn't go beyond 120 days -- if it gets much longer than that, a judge will probably reduce bond to something the defendant can make.
A habeas motion isn't going to help -- from what you've written, the defendant's treatment may be unfair, but it's not unlawful.
At early court appearances (preliminary hearings, bond hearings), it's often not to the defendant's advantage to testify or put on a lot of evidence--the state doesn't have to show very evidence to keep holding the defendant, and whatever evidence the defense puts on goes on the record and might come back to hurt them at trial or later in the process.
I'm sure it must drive you nuts that the defendant's lawyer wasn't using the information you gave him, but it's likely that this just wasn't the right moment to use it. At bond hearings especially, a unsympathetic judge might be MORE likely to deny bond if he feels like the defense is "wasting his time" with information he doesn't feel is important. It sucks, but it's how it is.
If it goes 90 days and there's no indictment, a defendant can go back before a court and get a bond. That usually puts enough pressure on the DA's office to make them move forward. Right now, the best thing you can do is start getting in touch with people that could help make a bond once one gets set.
justalayman
Senior Member
You have got to be kidding. This would be absurd (not saying that there is not absurdity in our legal system)foobarney said:
I would love to hear from some of the reg posting attorneys. Even the Padilla guy (the "dirty bomber" that GW Bush has locked up) is going to get better than this.
Nope.
Sorry ... not kidding.
And yes, it's quite absurd.
I believe the statute says that a defendant who has been denied a bond must be indicted within 90 days, but the remedy if it goes over 90 is bond, not release.
And if you're on a bond you can't make (say, $50 million), you just have to wait.
It's especially frustrating when you're dealing with cases the prosecutors simply won't be able to make--usually domestic incidents where the victim (and only witness) recants. The DAs know they'll never be able to make their burden and will eventually have to just drop it, but often they'll just sit on the case as long as the judges will let them. You'll have people serving 100, 120 days on a charge that everyone has known for months isn't going to stick ... just waiting for the DA to file the null-proc and turn 'em loose.
Sorry ... not kidding.
And yes, it's quite absurd.
I believe the statute says that a defendant who has been denied a bond must be indicted within 90 days, but the remedy if it goes over 90 is bond, not release.
And if you're on a bond you can't make (say, $50 million), you just have to wait.
It's especially frustrating when you're dealing with cases the prosecutors simply won't be able to make--usually domestic incidents where the victim (and only witness) recants. The DAs know they'll never be able to make their burden and will eventually have to just drop it, but often they'll just sit on the case as long as the judges will let them. You'll have people serving 100, 120 days on a charge that everyone has known for months isn't going to stick ... just waiting for the DA to file the null-proc and turn 'em loose.
Statute
The statute, if you're curious, is the above-quoted OCGA 17-7-50:
Don't break the law, kids. And don't talk to the cops.
The statute, if you're curious, is the above-quoted OCGA 17-7-50:
Remember, too, that the 90 day clock only counts as to the crime you were arrested for. If, say, you're on probation, your PO can violate you just for the arrest, and you could end up serving out the violation (the max is 6 months for a techical violation like not contacting your PO) while you wait for your day in court.
Don't break the law, kids. And don't talk to the cops.
Foobarney - I hope you'll read the update!
I had not read the replies for awhile, basically because I had found the answer, and code - all on my own. I think I've read just about every word of the GA Criminal Code now. I had paralegal experience - nothing criminal, and just went through PI class certification last year, and still never really thought I'd be interested in Criminal Defense. UNTIL I SAW HOW MESSED UP IT IS! I have now contacted and spoken with every Indigent Defense Organization in Atlanta to Volunteer, and have read complete Rules of Prof Conduct, Standards of Criminal Defense, and complete GA Criminal Code.
I have a new post because at least he was indicted, - which is a good thing so we can get going here.
What I didn't expect was my x-mas present from the DA's office - a letter on 12/24 stating I'VE BEEN INDICTED TOO! State v. ex-bf et al and lists me right after him with every charge.
Read the new post if you can. I actually copied 16.2, 16.20, 16.21 to make sure I am understanding what they must be accusing me of. I just don't understand how the Det. testified at the Prelim that I wasn't under investigation. I must have been in denial and so worried about impending custody hearing that I made excuses rather than see what was going on. So what changed...no new evidence other than the fact that after I saw him testify and so many things were not right - he denied being told things about my daughters past history that we had multiple conversations about and even gave him names and numbers of people he may want to talk to since I was so concerned about her testifying with the "boy who cried wolf" making an already troubled emotionally child worse, had his time frame all messed up (kids hadn't even been with me for a year because of custody battle) and I specifically gave him the dates. So that is when I started questioning a lot of things myself and at least making sure ex-bf had fair defense. So does that mean once I don't believe everything he says is true that he must have totally misjudged me?
There are a lot of circumstances I have not included as to what I think the motivations are and some possible shady stuff that I would love to tell you about,and get your opinion. It is too much to post - it would be a two pager! If you want, send me a response and I'll e-mail you - I even contacted the administrator since you have requested no emails because of all the research I have been doing, you are not only the first one to give me what I need (even though I had found it by then) but also do so really understanding GA and not making me feel like I'm an idiot.
I had not read the replies for awhile, basically because I had found the answer, and code - all on my own. I think I've read just about every word of the GA Criminal Code now. I had paralegal experience - nothing criminal, and just went through PI class certification last year, and still never really thought I'd be interested in Criminal Defense. UNTIL I SAW HOW MESSED UP IT IS! I have now contacted and spoken with every Indigent Defense Organization in Atlanta to Volunteer, and have read complete Rules of Prof Conduct, Standards of Criminal Defense, and complete GA Criminal Code.
I have a new post because at least he was indicted, - which is a good thing so we can get going here.
What I didn't expect was my x-mas present from the DA's office - a letter on 12/24 stating I'VE BEEN INDICTED TOO! State v. ex-bf et al and lists me right after him with every charge.
Read the new post if you can. I actually copied 16.2, 16.20, 16.21 to make sure I am understanding what they must be accusing me of. I just don't understand how the Det. testified at the Prelim that I wasn't under investigation. I must have been in denial and so worried about impending custody hearing that I made excuses rather than see what was going on. So what changed...no new evidence other than the fact that after I saw him testify and so many things were not right - he denied being told things about my daughters past history that we had multiple conversations about and even gave him names and numbers of people he may want to talk to since I was so concerned about her testifying with the "boy who cried wolf" making an already troubled emotionally child worse, had his time frame all messed up (kids hadn't even been with me for a year because of custody battle) and I specifically gave him the dates. So that is when I started questioning a lot of things myself and at least making sure ex-bf had fair defense. So does that mean once I don't believe everything he says is true that he must have totally misjudged me?
There are a lot of circumstances I have not included as to what I think the motivations are and some possible shady stuff that I would love to tell you about,and get your opinion. It is too much to post - it would be a two pager! If you want, send me a response and I'll e-mail you - I even contacted the administrator since you have requested no emails because of all the research I have been doing, you are not only the first one to give me what I need (even though I had found it by then) but also do so really understanding GA and not making me feel like I'm an idiot.
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