Arrested for getting stuck in the snow??

[MacGyver]

I Just moved to Lake Almanor, CA. not even a week before this happened to me.
A little about my self, I’m 30, clean cut, reasonably respectable I have never used
drugs, never committed a felony and the officers never found anything illegal
on me, in my vehicle or in what I was doing. Also I have pled not guilty already.

Any advice in what I should do would be greatly appreciated




I was driving up Stover Mt. road I Got stuck on snow mound 2ft.off of the main road
on an adjoining road.
I Proceeded to dig myself out, for approximately 45min.
It was starting to get dark so I was desperately digging at the snow under
my vehicle with my hands.

A US forest service SUV passed by then turned around approx. 75yrds down the road.
The USFS worker made contact. I then asked if he could pull me out.
Mr. Welsh replied no I don’t have anything to tow you out with.
I replied, “I have 4 tie downs they are rated at 250 pounds each, they will work.
Mr. Welsh then stated, “I’m not allowed to pull you out, but I can call you
a tow-truck or you can call someone.
I replied “no”, “I’m not from here, I don’t know anyone to call” then crawled back
under my vehicle and commenced digging.

Mr. Welsh asked where I was from.
I replied “Fort Bragg, CA”

Mr. Welsh then got into his vehicle and sat their parked just behind my LandCruiser
he remained in his vehicle for approximately 5min. Then Mr. Welsh got out and asked
if the vehicle was registered to me.
I replied “yes”

Mr. Welsh then asked if I had registration.
I said yes, it is in the glove box as I continued to dig.

Mr. Welsh paused for a minute then asked me to retrieve the registration for him.
I replied from under the vehicle I’m kind of busy right now, I would like to get unstuck before
it’s dark.

Mr. Welsh then asked if I had a drivers license.
I replied yes but it’s not on me it’s in the vehicle as I proceeded to dig.

Then Mr. Welsh told me to retrieve the items for him.
I replied from under the vehicle I will get them for you, I would like to get unstuck before it gets dark though.

Mr. Welsh Asked my date of birth
I replied

Mr. Welsh asked for my driver’s license number.
I said, I do not know it.

Mr. Welsh said with a stern voice, “ya you need to get that stuff for me NOW!
I stated why don’t you just pull me out I’m 2ft. Off the road.

Mr. Welsh said loudly are you refusing to get the items for me.
I precisely stated, “I am NOT refusing to comply with your request, I’ll
get the stuff for you when I’m out from under here.

Mr. Welsh stated, “ya you need to get it now and we will work something out,
I have a small tow chain.
I replied you told me you didn’t have anything to tow me out with?

Mr. Welsh replied angrily “ya you have 2min. To get that stuff for me”
I said angrily while under the vehicle digging “I’ll get the $#%! for you when I’m out.

Mr. Welsh yelled “NO YOU WILL GET IT NOW, YOU’RE
NOT COMPLYING”
I Said yes I am complying, I just answered every question you asked, just call the CHP
they would pull me out.

Mr. Welsh said “ya I am”
I said “good”

Then he moves the rod for the car jack aside, and starts yelling YOU’RE NOT COMPLYING, YOU’RE NOT COMPLYING (As if to convince himself ) wile he garbs me by my ankles and yanks me out from under my vehicle.

As I started to sit up I said “what the hell are you doing” and Mr. Welsh grabbed my wrist, twisted it behind my back, and pushed me face first in to the snow and kneeled on my back.

I stated “what the #$%^ are you doing” Mr. Welsh yelled “YOUR NOT COMPLYING”
I said “yes I am, I told you I would get the stuff for you” “What kind of person are you, you have no morals? you can’t help someone. You’re an @$$ #*!&.

After fumbling with his handcuffs trying to put them on my wrists for approximately 2 min.
and failed to do so because of the wet gloves and thick coveralls I was wearing.

I stated that I was freezing, being that I was soaked from the snow.
Mr. Welsh got up from kneeling on my back and told me to get up.

He then walked me over the snow bank to his vehicle told me to stand in front of it
and spread my legs as he kicked the inside of my feet an said wider wider.

He then preceded to fumble with the handcuffs again and managed to get one side
on and told me not to move my arms as he let go of one to remove my gloves and
secure the other cuff.

Mr. Welsh then tries to pat me down for weapons through my thick wet coveralls
with little luck, so he moved me to the rear driver’s side door.

Then un-cuffs me and partly removes my coveralls, re-cuffs me then told me to get in.

After getting in the back seat and turned sideways with my leg out of the vehicle
he finished taking my coveralls off.

Mr. Welsh then told me to get out and he walked me to the front of his vehicle
and preceded to pat me down again, while asking if I had any weapons.

I replied not on me but I do have a rifle in my vehicle that is registered to me

At this point the two CHP and a sheriff pulled up, one CHP asked
me what was going on, I told him what had happened and he replied
that’s what you get for messing with a federal agent.

I then was placed back in the Mr. Welsh’s vehicle.




I later was driven 60mi to Quincy, CA. And booked in at the jail.
I was released at 10:00 pm on my own recognizance with no
ride back to Lake Almanor and no public transportation or anyone
to call for a ride.

I walked for an hour in below 30 degree weather before I hitched a ride with a fish & game warden

He drove me to the impound yard in Chester, CA.

After shelling out $289.00 for impound fee’s I arrived home at 12:30am.

And wrote this wile it was still fresh in my mind.

Arresting officer: USDA Forest Service worker M. Welsh USFS badge# 1643 vehicle# E6-3

Charge: Penal code 148 (a)(1)What is the name of your state?

 

[Ohiogal]

Nice story but what exactly do you want to know from us?

 

[justalayman]

Apologize profusely to the guy who arrested you.
Rather than not complying with the agent, if you had doubts as to his legal ability to arrest you, you might have asked him what gives him the authority to request all of the requested items.

By simply refusing (yes, you were refusing) to comply, you found out he has the authority to ask for all the info.

It sounds as the agent was trying very hard to not be a jerk, you just kept pushing until he quit being nice.
Now as far as walking over an hour in under 30 degree weather; sounds like a lightweight winter walk for me in weather that is too warm. Are there any hotels in Quincy? Google lists 371 hotels near Quincy
. The thought of walking over 60 miles is a bit ridiculous. At an average pace of 3 m.p.h. it would take you 20 hours, better to take cover and wait for daylight.

 

[MacGyver]

Maybe you didn’t fully read my post, I didn’t refuse, he just couldn’t wait
until I got out from under the vehicle to retrieve the items.

This took place in approximately 10 min. 5 of which he was
sitting in his vehicle before he asked me anything.

Hotels yes, would that get me any closer to a ride to work the next day?
NO PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION and I didn’t know anybody here to call

That’s beside the point, he violated my civil rights

 

[justalayman]

Maybe you didn_t fully read my post, I didn_t refuse, he just couldn_t wait
until I got out from under the vehicle to retrieve the items.

This took place in approximately 10 min. 5 of which he was
sitting in his vehicle before he asked me anything.

Hotels yes, would that get me any closer to a ride to work the next day?
NO PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION and I didn_t know anybody here to call

That_s beside the point, he violated my civil rights

Yes, I did read you post. Maybe you didn't read my reply. You did refuse to do as instructed. You continued to proceed as you desired. That is refusing to follow his direction. No ambiguity here.

Cal penal code:
148. (a) (1) Every person who willfully resists, delays, or
obstructs any public officer, peace officer, or an emergency medical
technician, as defined in Division 2.5 (commencing with Section 1797)
of the Health and Safety Code, in the discharge or attempt to
discharge any duty of his or her office or employment, when no other
punishment is prescribed, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding
one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by imprisonment in a county jail
not to exceed one year, or by both that fine and imprisonment.
QUOTE]

Sounds like you were delaying to me. Seems like the statute fits the action.

Now tell us how he violated your civil rights?

 

[tigger22472]

Maybe you didn’t fully read my post, I didn’t refuse, he just couldn’t wait
until I got out from under the vehicle to retrieve the items.

This took place in approximately 10 min. 5 of which he was
sitting in his vehicle before he asked me anything.

Hotels yes, would that get me any closer to a ride to work the next day?
NO PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION and I didn’t know anybody here to call

That’s beside the point, he violated my civil rights

He did not violate your civil rights. He requested standard documents that you refused to comply with at the time that he requested them. You not only refused to comply you became beligerant, even prior to being arrested.

Unless by replying to the request at the time it was made put your life in immediate danger you were obligated to comply with the officer.

 

[CdwJava]

Maybe you didn’t fully read my post, I didn’t refuse, he just couldn’t wait
until I got out from under the vehicle to retrieve the items.

You failed to comply with his lawful direction. You don't chose the timin gto retrieve that information - HE does. After NUMEROUS attempts to gain voluntary compliance, you failed to comply. Because you claim you were going to comply later is irrelevent - you are required to comply at that moment.

This took place in approximately 10 min. 5 of which he was
sitting in his vehicle before he asked me anything.

He was probably running your license plate or some other such thing.

That’s beside the point, he violated my civil rights

He did? Which one?

He was far more patient than I would have been. Those Forestry cops don't spend a lot of time making arrests - it's not their thing. if he was pushed to make an arrest, I can only imagine he was pushed to his limit.

I see a violation of PC 148(a). Time to hire an attorney and see if you can do some damage control.

- Carl

 

[tranquility]

Failing to follow an officer's legal demands with alacrity is not cause for arrest in California for 148(a)(1) CPC. However you delayed at least five minutes for three requests, to get out from under your car, to present your driver's license and to present your registration. If the three things were legally asked (in order for the police officer to have been doing his duty) the time spent is more than what was envisioned in the case I mention regarding following with alacrity and I think you may very well be guilty of the crime.

First, why did he stop? If a motorist under his car dies in the forest, does he make a sound? He may have come upon the situation out of concern for your safety. We don't know as you do not give the facts, but he's probably there for good cause.

Once there he checked you out from his vehicle. Did he find anything? We don't know. If he found anything that would cause him to investigate further, all three things asked would clearly be part of a reasonable investigation and you have nothing even resembling an issue to argue. The same is true if there is some, even slight, violation from being where you are or how you or your vehicle are. It is said a good traffic cop can write 10 "fix-it" tickets for a new car off the assembly line. Was your car new off the assembly line? The point I'm trying to make is there are many things which will give probable cause to arrest/cite or reasonable suspicition to investigate and you don't give enough facts to judge if any were present here. If they were, get and attorney and try to make a deal.

Arguendo, he didn't find anything which would lead to a reasonable suspicion on the radio call and there was nothing else which would give probable cause or reasonable suspicion. Things are still unusual and the officer wants to just talk. Can he ask you to come out from under the vehicle? Probably not. Well, he can ask, but you wouldn't have to. (Assuming no RS or PC.) His safety is not a valid reason right now as he doesn't have the RS required for Terry. He can ask you to identify yourself. But, since you weren't driving I don't think CA has a "must identify" statute--even though the Supreme Court fairly recently held such statutes don't violate the Constitution. So, I don't think failure here would lead to (legal) arrest for violation of 148. He can ask for your registration. Uh, oh. I think you have to give him that.

CVC 4462. (a) The driver of a motor vehicle shall present the
registration or identification card or other evidence of registration
of any or all vehicles under his or her immediate control for
examination upon demand of any peace officer.

Now I'm not sure he would be a peace officer and I'm not sure the vehicle is under your immediate control or if you would be a driver, but I think they could all be true. Is so, get an attorney and try to make a deal.

So basically, what CdwJava said.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

.

A US forest service SUV passed by then turned around approx. 75yrds down the road.
The USFS worker made contact. I then asked if he could pull me out.
Mr. Welsh replied no I don’t have anything to tow you out with.
I replied, “I have 4 tie downs they are rated at 250 pounds each, they will work.
Mr. Welsh then stated, “I’m not allowed to pull you out, but I can call you
a tow-truck or you can call someone.
I replied “no”, “I’m not from here, I don’t know anyone to call” then crawled back
under my vehicle and commenced digging.

Mr. Welsh asked where I was from.
I replied “Fort Bragg, CA”......


Charge: Penal code 148 (a)(1)

Well you should have taken his original offer to call you a tow truck, then you could have sat in the comfort and safety of your vehicle and complied with the reasonable request for your liscense and registration. Yes the USFS officer can arrest you both under CA and FED statutes, it all depends on where exactly you were located. The tow truck would have cost you less than the impound fees. You drive an expensive vehicle, Landrover and you got stuck in the snow, doesn't it have 4wd? Since you now live in an area subject to snow, I suggest you prepare your vehicle for future emergiences.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

So, you DID get a tow.

It's just a little more expensive than you might have imagined.

Otherwise, you have shown nothing to this forum other than you are a cleancut, new resident with a smart mouth and a lack of understanding as to what you can and can't do when confronted by someone with the legal authority to demand you identify yourself.

Guess you know now.

Next time you are within 100 miles of a U.S. Federal Prison you might want to stay out of deserted areas at night.

 

[MacGyver]

Tranquility

Thanks for not being a flamer and posting
useful information

 

[justalayman]

Still waiting for that list of civil rights violations.

 

[MacGyver]

Still waiting for that list of civil rights violations.

Dear layman, you’re a “layman” nuff said

 

[justalayman]

Dear layman, you’re a “layman” nuff said

Well in that vein; you are certainly NO MacGyver. If you were, you would have been able to come up with an intelligent idea as to how to get out of the snow.

Instead you went the long hard road and pissed off a fed agent, which while giving you a temporary reprieve from the cold weather, did nothing to remove your overpriced vehicle from the snow. Guess I'll just stick with my Ford. It doesn't get stuck.

You see I don't claim to be more than I am while you apparently have severe personality problems but fail to live up to your imagination.

Still waiting for that list of civil rights that were violated though.

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Tranquility

Thanks for not being a flamer and posting
useful information

Just because you didn't get the answer's you wanted doesn't mean the others here flamed you or gave you incorrect legal advise. Everything that happened was entirely your fault and could have been avoided. Hopefully the Judge will admonish you in court. Now figure out what you need to have when drining in the snow.