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Arrested for stealing electric? Really??

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realfilm

Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Georgia (or any state I guess)

Hello, New here and tried to post something but not sure if it got posted so I posted again. Sorry if I made an error.

I saw this on the news and cant believe it. Yet people charge their phones and computers at McDonalds, Starbuks, Panera Bread, etc and not a thing done

Yet people charge their phones and computers all the time at McDonalds, Starbucks, Panera Bread, etc and not a thing done
 


Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Georgia (or any state I guess)

Hello, New here and tried to post something but not sure if it got posted so I posted again. Sorry if I made an error.

I saw this on the news and cant believe it. Yet people charge their phones and computers at McDonalds, Starbuks, Panera Bread, etc and not a thing done

Yet people charge their phones and computers all the time at McDonalds, Starbucks, Panera Bread, etc and not a thing done
Did you have a legal question related to a situation you are dealing with?
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
Is this the story to which you are referring?

http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/5/5177620/electric-car-owner-arrested-for-stealing-electricity
 

quincy

Senior Member
Did you have a legal question related to a situation you are dealing with?
I think realfilm is referring to the story about a Georgia man who was arrested after using a school's electricity to recharge his electric car (see http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2013/12/04/electric-car-owner-arrested-for-stealing-5-cents-worth-of-power/).

The difference between using electricity at a place like McDonald's or Starbucks or Panera Bread, and using electricity at the school as this man did, is permission. The school did not give the man permission to use their electricity, therefore it is theft (regardless of the amount stolen).

As a note, realfilm: Your first post may have been flagged by moderators if it included a link to the story. Posts made by new members that include links are reviewed by the moderators prior to posting, to ensure the links are not for commercial or advertising purposes.


(cbg's link is different than mine but is the same story)
 

justalayman

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Georgia (or any state I guess)

Hello, New here and tried to post something but not sure if it got posted so I posted again. Sorry if I made an error.

I saw this on the news and cant believe it. Yet people charge their phones and computers at McDonalds, Starbuks, Panera Bread, etc and not a thing done

Yet people charge their phones and computers all the time at McDonalds, Starbucks, Panera Bread, etc and not a thing done
yet the situations at Maca's and starbucks and the others are permissive use. The situation cbg linked was non-permissive use.



it's as simple as this:

if somebody came to my house and I saw they were plugged into my wall and said nothing, it would be permissive use. If the neighbor ran an extension cord from his house and plugged it into my exterior receptacles without my knowledge, that would be theft. Not hard do understand the difference at all.

and it sounds like this isn't the first time this particular person has had an issue involving the school.


from that article:

While electric cars are slowly going mainstream, the case does highlight the gray areas around simply plugging in at outlets without consent, common-sense policing, and the need for more free charging points.
there are no gray areas here. He stole electricity. It's that simple. Whether there is a single free charging port nowhere in the country or there is one every 12 feet along the road is irrelevant. You cannot take something of value from another without their permission.


and if anybody doesn't think what the guy did was wrong and illegal, please let me know. I'll be right over to plug an extension cord into an outside receptacle at your house to power my house. (I have some really long extension cords)
 
The other comments in this thread talk about it as if he took it from someones private home, or other private property, this wasn't someones house or even a private business, this was a public space. This was an interesting comment on that article.

facilities open to the public can reasonably expect publicly accessible utilities to be used by patrons on site. Unless the outlet was signed or the public was otherwise informed that it wasn’t intended for public use, there’s a level of implied consent here.
I don't have the legal expertise on this subject, but that seems logical.
 
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quincy

Senior Member
... and if anybody doesn't think what the guy did was wrong and illegal, please let me know. I'll be right over to plug an extension cord into an outside receptacle at your house to power my house. (I have some really long extension cords)
In Detroit, there are many cases of homeowners whose electricity has been shut off by the utility company running cords to neighboring homes or, worse, to electrical poles. This is not only illegal, of course, but also extremely dangerous.

The school, by the way, apparently had no intention of pursuing any legal action against the father of the middle-school student.
 

realfilm

Member
Gee,,I posted a reply to a quote and when I clicked to post it it said it would be invisible. whys that? (maybe this one is too??) :confused:

I basically had said that when I go to a McDs or Starbucks or Panera I never ask permission to plug my laptop or phone in. I just do it.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
SmokeyParkCop;3229035]The other comments in this thread talk about it as if he took it from someones private home, or other private property, this wasn't someones house or even a private business, this was a public space. This was an interesting comment on that article.



I don't have the legal expertise on this subject, but that seems logical.
Using your argument I can just run my extension cords to any "public" space and power up my home. Does that even remotely sound like it should be the case?

Somebody is paying for that electricity and unless you have the permission from that entity, taking anything of value without permission is theft. It is a very simple premise. Don't try to complicate it with arguing it is some magical "public space" where the laws of reality are suspended.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
Gee,,I posted a reply to a quote and when I clicked to post it it said it would be invisible. whys that? (maybe this one is too??) :confused:

I basically had said that when I go to a McDs or Starbucks or Panera I never ask permission to plug my laptop or phone in. I just do it.
and they are quite aware you are doing it and by not stopping you, they are giving tacit permission.


If they said; no, you cannot do that. and you did it after that, McD's or Panera could also have you prosecuted.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
quincy;3229036]In Detroit, there are many cases of homeowners whose electricity has been shut off by the utility company running cords to neighboring homes or, worse, to electrical poles. This is not only illegal, of course, but also extremely dangerous.

not just Detroit ;)

my neighbor can never figure out why his bill is so high.



Just kidding but yes, I agree with you completely, unless of course you happen to know an electrician that can hook you up in a safe manner:D





The school, by the way, apparently had no intention of pursuing any legal action against the father of the middle-school student.
I see the charges as being a bit over zealous but there must be some reason the guy is charged if the school is not seeking charges. The school can get them dropped pretty quickly by telling the courts his use was permissive even if retroactively applied. Unless that happens, I'm thinking the school is actually on board with what is happening now.


facilities open to the public can reasonably expect publicly accessible utilities to be used by patrons on site. Unless the outlet was signed or the public was otherwise informed that it wasn’t intended for public use, there’s a level of implied consent here.
really? Then dang, I'm getting out my extension cords.

Unless there are signs, I guess there must also be an implied permission I can use their kitchen to cook my dinner and their showers to bath myself. Dang, I hate spending all that money so I can do it at home. This is going to save me a fortune.
 
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quincy

Senior Member
Gee,,I posted a reply to a quote and when I clicked to post it it said it would be invisible. whys that? (maybe this one is too??) :confused:

I basically had said that when I go to a McDs or Starbucks or Panera I never ask permission to plug my laptop or phone in. I just do it.
The availability of outlets for consumers (to power up their laptops, recharge their cell phones, whatever) is part of the marketing plan by these entities to attract consumers to their businesses. If someone at Starbucks can use their laptop while there, for example, they are also apt to stay longer, drink more coffee, consume more food, make more money for the business. This consumer spending, fueled by the convenience of additional services offered by these businesses to the consumer, is greater than the cost of electricity to the businesses. It is considered a win/win.

However, if someone were to run extension cords from their electric vehicle to a Starbucks outlet to recharge their vehicle, there is likely to be a problem. It exceeds the permission granted customers of Starbucks by Starbucks to use their outlets (although I suppose Starbucks might make an exception to the vehicle owner if s/he purchases bucket-loads of coffee on each visit ;)).

Possible applicable Georgia statute under which the Georgia man could be charged would be 16-8-2: Theft by taking. There are other charges he could face, though, depending on what happened between him and the officer on school grounds. It seems there is some question as to what occurred.
 
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You two jumped without reading, or fully understanding what you read....You missed the term 'patrons'. No one is saying you can plug your home into the park and go to work, sleep, live life, because then you wouldn't be patrons of that park.
 

quincy

Senior Member
You two jumped without reading, or fully understanding what you read....You missed the term 'patrons'. No one is saying you can plug your home into the park and go to work, sleep, live life, because then you wouldn't be patrons of that park.
I think you are not fully understanding a thing or two about the law, Smokey.

Did you have a legal question of your own that needs addressing? If so, you can start your own thread. We don't want to unnecessarily confuse realfilm with misinformation in his thread. Thanks. :)
 

justalayman

Senior Member
You two jumped without reading, or fully understanding what you read....You missed the term 'patrons'. No one is saying you can plug your home into the park and go to work, sleep, live life, because then you wouldn't be patrons of that park.

I didn't miss anything. If you think the fact he was observing something taking place on the school grounds, then using your argument, go ahead and try to associate the activity being viewed with him charging his car.



if there was a bazaar at the school and somebody was selling coffee, it would be expected they were plugging in the coffee maker somewhere. There is no association of his using the electricity with the activity being watched.


and if you want to argue anything else, we can go back to my point with one exception:


so, if I am watching any activity at the school, I should expect to be able to use all of the schools facilities, including the kitchen and showers, simply because I am there for a valid reason and the facilities are there.
 
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