Being "detained" by police

[harleydave3866]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Missouri or anywhere
I have noticed a lot lately that the police will stop someone and reach inside their pockets during a search or handcuff the person then tell them they are not under arrest just being detained. The ACLU says they are not allowed to reach inside pockets without a warrant only "pat down" for weapons. They also state that if you are not under arrest you are free to leave. Whats going on? Is the ACLU wrong or are the police just violating peoples rights?

 

[justalayman]

they cannot reach into pockets without probable cause.


they can detain if there is reasonable suspicion including handcuffing. Generally the handcuffing would be allowed under the same justification as a terry frisk. It's for the officers safety. It's not an actual arrest but it is a detention.

 

[CdwJava]

I have noticed a lot lately that the police will stop someone and reach inside their pockets during a search or handcuff the person then tell them they are not under arrest just being detained. The ACLU says they are not allowed to reach inside pockets without a warrant only "pat down" for weapons. They also state that if you are not under arrest you are free to leave. Whats going on? Is the ACLU wrong or are the police just violating peoples rights?

Hmmm ... must be a Missouri thing because I have not noticed this "a lot."

And you not only misstate the ACLU, but the law. An officer cannot generally reach into the pockets of someone only detained unless they have consent or can articulate probable cause to believe that the object in the pockets are a weapon or some pretty obvious contraband.

Oh, and a detention does NOT mean you are free to leave. If you are NOT free to leave then you are either detained or under arrest. If you are under arrest then the cops can search you to their heart's content.

 

[Zigner]

I think our OP has been watching too much tv...

 

[harleydave3866]

It has happened to me more then once.

Where I used to live in Michigan there were a few local cops that did not like the fact that I drove an old police car bought from an auction. I would be stopped, handcuffed and either seated in the back of their car or on the curb while they searched not only me but in my car, trunk and under the hood. I was always released and told I was just being detained while they investigated. I later found out there had been a police impersonator running around and they wanted to see if it was me. I also found out he was in a different make of car and a 2 door not a 4 door. And yes, if you watch shows like COPS you see it in every episode where they search someone and take the contents out of their pockets to look at it then either put it back or throw it on the hood of the car.

 

[CdwJava]

Where I used to live in Michigan there were a few local cops that did not like the fact that I drove an old police car bought from an auction. I would be stopped, handcuffed and either seated in the back of their car or on the curb while they searched not only me but in my car, trunk and under the hood. I was always released and told I was just being detained while they investigated. I later found out there had been a police impersonator running around and they wanted to see if it was me. I also found out he was in a different make of car and a 2 door not a 4 door. And yes, if you watch shows like COPS you see it in every episode where they search someone and take the contents out of their pockets to look at it then either put it back or throw it on the hood of the car.

First, you see - at most - 7 minutes of an encounter that might be 30 minutes long, so you do not see the WHOLE situation or justification for actions, only the highlights.

I can't speak to your experience(s), but if the cops were diving into pockets absent probable cause or consent, then shame on them. I don't see that all that much, and when I do, I say something - most any training officer or supervisor would. Mostly, it's a training issue.

 

[dave33]

The bottom line as I see it is like this. They can search your car as long as they call it an "inventory", and they can search you as long as they call it a "terry frisk." As long as they include those words, it's legal and leaves you with little recourse. Most are "clever" enough to use the correct wording.

 

[CdwJava]

The bottom line as I see it is like this. They can search your car as long as they call it an "inventory", and they can search you as long as they call it a "terry frisk." As long as they include those words, it's legal and leaves you with little recourse. Most are "clever" enough to use the correct wording.

It's not what the officers or the prosecutor might call it, but what the totality of circumstances might indicate. I can call a reach into the pockets a "Terry Frisk," but it's not. Calling it so does not automatically make it so, and I have seen cases of such searches tossed.

 

[justalayman]

Where I used to live in Michigan there were a few local cops that did not like the fact that I drove an old police car bought from an auction. I would be stopped, handcuffed and either seated in the back of their car or on the curb while they searched not only me but in my car, trunk and under the hood. I was always released and told I was just being detained while they investigated. I later found out there had been a police impersonator running around and they wanted to see if it was me. I also found out he was in a different make of car and a 2 door not a 4 door. And yes, if you watch shows like COPS you see it in every episode where they search someone and take the contents out of their pockets to look at it then either put it back or throw it on the hood of the car.

so, what did you do about it? If nothing; well if you don't fight for your rights, you really do lose them. Just because they did something doesn't mean it it's right.

 

[disneykid52]

Why cant we citizens ask to search the cops cars or frisk them? Above the law in a pigs eye. We know there are crocked cops out there and probably have illegal stuff hidden on them or their cars. Created equal uranus.

 

[CdwJava]

Why cant we citizens ask to search the cops cars or frisk them?

You can ASK anything you want, but they do not have to comply.

And a frisk is for weapons ... well, they will HAVE a weapon, so why?

Above the law in a pigs eye. We know there are crocked cops out there and probably have illegal stuff hidden on them or their cars. Created equal uranus.

Crocked cops? I hope not ... at least not while on duty!

Crooked cops? Yeah, there are a few, I hear.

Not sure what kind of illegal stuff you think cops might have hidden in their cars, but I have yet to ever find anything illegal to possess in a police car. Maybe I need to get out more.

 

[harleydave3866]

What did I do?

To answer the people that wandered what I did when I was stopped and searched let me start by saying that the part I left out was while the officer was searching my car his patrol supervisor pulled up and questioned his search. He told the supervisor why he was searching (he thought I was the impersonator) and was told that this is not the car they were looking for. The searching officer then walked over to me and told me he would "kick my ass if I ever see you again" and left. I made a formal complaint with the department and he was suspended for a week and put on desk duty for 6 months. A year later he pulled me over again and impounded my car because I had a scanner in it. I showed him my license to have one in a vehicle and a copy of the state law. He claimed on the street he was the law and tore up the copy I had given him. The next day he called my insurance provider and demanded they no longer insure this car because it was being used criminally. I hired an attorney and sued the department and it was settled out of court. The officer retired right after this happened.

 

[CdwJava]

To answer the people that wandered what I did when I was stopped and searched let me start by saying that the part I left out was while the officer was searching my car his patrol supervisor pulled up and questioned his search. He told the supervisor why he was searching (he thought I was the impersonator) and was told that this is not the car they were looking for. The searching officer then walked over to me and told me he would "kick my ass if I ever see you again" and left. I made a formal complaint with the department and he was suspended for a week and put on desk duty for 6 months. A year later he pulled me over again and impounded my car because I had a scanner in it. I showed him my license to have one in a vehicle and a copy of the state law. He claimed on the street he was the law and tore up the copy I had given him. The next day he called my insurance provider and demanded they no longer insure this car because it was being used criminally. I hired an attorney and sued the department and it was settled out of court. The officer retired right after this happened.

Sounds like they had a problem officer and they probably should have identified and addressed the issue long before that.

Hopefully they have identified the inadequacies in training, supervision, and/or hiring that allowed this guy to behave in such a manner.

No tears to see a guy like that gone.

 

[disneykid52]

You can ASK anything you want, but they do not have to comply.

And a frisk is for weapons ... well, they will HAVE a weapon, so why?


Crocked cops? I hope not ... at least not while on duty!

Crooked cops? Yeah, there are a few, I hear.

Not sure what kind of illegal stuff you think cops might have hidden in their cars, but I have yet to ever find anything illegal to possess in a police car. Maybe I need to get out more.

a few? think again muchacho

 

[CdwJava]

a few? think again muchacho

Yep ... a few. Very few.