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  1. #1
    kae073 is offline Junior Member
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    Exclamation !!!!!Being a Parolee and Your Amendment Rights!!!!!

    What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MI

    I have an extremely important question. If you are on parole do you not have full citizen rights while serving out your parole period?

    I will explain the situation to make the scenario more clear. This individual was to be on parole until 2014 or until their restitution was paid in full, which ever were to occur first would result in the release of being on parole.

    The individual was recenlty pulled over and was placed under arrest for possession of a firearm not registered in their name. The officers searched the vehicle without consent from the individual. Furthermore, the vehicle pulled over was not titled in the individual's name. The firearm was in the back seat of the truck, and was not carrying the weapon on them. Did this individual have rights to his 4th Amendment (unreasonable search) even if he was on parole??? Also, was a search warrant necessary to search through the vechile which was lawfully titled as someone else's property?

    I thank you for your time. This is rather an urgent matter, and I will be looking forward to any insight offered.
  2. #2
    CdwJava is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kae073 View Post
    I have an extremely important question. If you are on parole do you not have full citizen rights while serving out your parole period?
    When you are on parole, you lose many rights. Keep in mind that parole is a privilege and not a right, he could just as easily been left behind bars.

    The individual was recenlty pulled over and was placed under arrest for possession of a firearm not registered in their name. The officers searched the vehicle without consent from the individual. Furthermore, the vehicle pulled over was not titled in the individual's name. The firearm was in the back seat of the truck, and was not carrying the weapon on them. Did this individual have rights to his 4th Amendment (unreasonable search) even if he was on parole??? Also, was a search warrant necessary to search through the vechile which was lawfully titled as someone else's property?
    Unless your state has laws out of whack with the rest of the country, a parolee, his residence, his possessions, and any vehicle he is operating, is subject to search at most any time. He has no 4th Amendment right to privacy, nor can he be in possession of a firearm whether it belongs to him or someone else.
    A Nor Cal Cop Sergeant

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    And a croissant!"

    Seek justice,
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  3. #3
    kae073 is offline Junior Member
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    Java,

    Thank you for your response. It does make sense that when you are on parole you are still considered a prisoner but with more freedoms to engage in everyday society. I am upset because I believe that many parolees are not given the knowledge and awareness of what their constitutional rights are, which ones they have, if any other than their known parole restrictions.

    Here are the provison's of this particular parolee:
    SUPERVISION CONDITIONS
    01 - Contact agent no later than first business day after release
    02 - Must not change residence
    2.0 - Not use/possess alcohol/intoxicants or in place served
    03 - Must not leave state
    3.6 - Complete SAI Residential program
    3.7 - Complete tether program
    04 - Not engage in any behavior that constitutes a violation
    4.4 - Abide by a specified curfew as directed
    4.16 - Obey all court orders
    05 - Comply with alcohol and drug testing ordered by field agent
    06 - Not associate with anyone you know to have a felony record
    07 - Must not own or possess a firearm
    7.1 - Pay cost of treatment
    7.5 - State Costs
    08 - Must not own, possess or use any object as a weapon
    09 - Make earnest efforts to find and maintain employment
    10 - Must comply w/special conditions, written and verbal orders

    The individual has 4 charges against him. They are facing 5 years for parole violation and 2 additional years for gun charges. It is a known fact that they knowingly did violate their parole restrictions by possessing a firearm. I am trying my best to find some loop holes if there are any. It seems like I am running out of luck for the individual.
  4. #4
    HighwayMan is offline Senior Member
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    Forget about the restricted rights of the parolee.

    What about the situation doesn't seem right to you? "This individual" was driving around with a gun on the back seat and you are questioning a search of the vehicle when it appears that the firearm was in plain view? Consent does not have to be obtained in many situations, this certainly seems like it is one of them.

    Guess what? Whether "this individual" knew it was there or not doesn't make much difference. He was in possession of the firearm whether it was physically on his person or not.
  5. #5
    Banned_Princess is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kae073 View Post
    Java,

    Thank you for your response. It does make sense that when you are on parole you are still considered a prisoner but with more freedoms to engage in everyday society. I am upset because I believe that many parolees are not given the knowledge and awareness of what their constitutional rights are, which ones they have, if any other than their known parole restrictions.

    Here are the provison's of this particular parolee:
    SUPERVISION CONDITIONS
    01 - Contact agent no later than first business day after release
    02 - Must not change residence
    2.0 - Not use/possess alcohol/intoxicants or in place served
    03 - Must not leave state
    3.6 - Complete SAI Residential program
    3.7 - Complete tether program
    04 - Not engage in any behavior that constitutes a violation
    4.4 - Abide by a specified curfew as directed
    4.16 - Obey all court orders
    05 - Comply with alcohol and drug testing ordered by field agent
    06 - Not associate with anyone you know to have a felony record
    07 - Must not own or possess a firearm
    7.1 - Pay cost of treatment
    7.5 - State Costs
    08 - Must not own, possess or use any object as a weapon
    09 - Make earnest efforts to find and maintain employment
    10 - Must comply w/special conditions, written and verbal orders

    The individual has 4 charges against him. They are facing 5 years for parole violation and 2 additional years for gun charges. It is a known fact that they knowingly did violate their parole restrictions by possessing a firearm. I am trying my best to find some loop holes if there are any. It seems like I am running out of luck for the individual.
    it is clear in the rules that you posted that he should not be in possession of any firearm. and it is basic and kindergarden knowledge that parolees cannot be associated in any way with a firearm.

    it is slightly less elementary knowledge that parolees have had most if not all (except religious and speech) rights revoked.

    Sorry, your parolee is going back to the big house.
  6. #6
    Banned_Princess is offline Senior Member
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    as a matter of fact I think they do not.

    It has been explained to me that parolees have no rights.

    Who are you in this situation?

    OH op deleted his question about if a parolee can vote.

    I say no.



    **************************************************************************************************
    Last edited by Banned_Princess; 12-28-2009 at 08:38 PM.
  7. #7
    kae073 is offline Junior Member
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    Banned Princess:

    Okay here are the beans spilled. I am the wife of the individual. This is the story. He began his parole in 11/2004. I was not in the picture at that time. He was to be released off of parole in 2014, or if he paid his restitution in full of $7500.00 he would be discharged. He has gone 5 years with out any violations or any trouble.

    This is what happened:
    He owns a company that has seasonal work. Due to the holiday season he was trying to sell a variety of things online to be able to buy Christmas presents for our family without having to ask me for money. He belongs a car enthusiast forum which has a section for classified ads. He posted some of his company construction tools and a credit card machine for sale. He saw there were guns posted for sale on this forum. He had an antique gun that he posted for sale on the forum. I will vouche 100% he did not know this was illegal to sell firearms online and of course a violation of the Patriot Act. This particular forum did not have a disclaimer like Craigslist or Ebay has in regards to sale of weapons. Apparently, one of his friends knew about his parole and saw the thread about the gun for sale. The friend made an anonymous phone call the his PO notifying her of his parole violation. In other words, the "friend" must have not been a real friend. The PO then contacted a detective in which they set up a sting. My husband never actually engaged in the act of the sale of the gun. He did not stop the vehicle at the arranged meeting spot for the under cover cop to look at the gun. He drove by the location and never stopped at the location. Agents and police pulled him over a mile or more away from the "meeting location". At that point he was arrested. The vehicle was immediately searched. He was not read his rights until AFTER he was taken to the jail. I will be reviewing the police report Tuesday.

    The bad thing is that day before his arrest I was making arrangements with his PO to pay off his restitution. I suppose too little too late.

    Please do not be cold hearted...
    I am an occupational therapist not a lawyer. My knowledge is elementary. Keep in mind that learning has to start somewhere. I joined this forum before this situation occured with intent to learn about corporate, real estate, criminal, and other aspects of law. I did take some offense to posts saying "below elementary knowledge." I could very well say to my stroke patients who have lost the ability to swallow, talk, or bathe that its elementary knowledge to be able to do so. My family is ruined all because of Christmas presents and a poor decision. I do thank you for the responses thus far. They have been useful.
    Last edited by kae073; 12-28-2009 at 09:17 PM.
  8. #8
    Banned_Princess is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kae073 View Post
    Banned Princess:

    Okay here are the beans spilled. I am the wife of the individual. This is the story. He began his parole in 11/2004. I was not in the picture at that time. He was to be release off of parole in 2014, or if he paid his restitution in full of $7500.00 he would be discharged. He has gone 5 years with out any violations or any trouble.

    This is what happened:
    He owns a company that has seasonal work. Due to the holiday season he was trying to sell a variety of things online to be able to buy Christmas presents for our family without having to ask me for money. He belongs a car enthusiast forum which has a section for classified ads. He posted some of his company construction tools and a credit card machine for sale. He saw there were guns posted for sale on this forum. He had an antique gun that he posted for sale on the forum. I will vouche 100% he did not know this was illegal to sell firearms online and of course a violation of the Patriot Act. This particular forum did not have a disclaimer like Craigslist or Ebay has in regards to sale of weapons. Apparently, one of his friends knew about his parole and saw the thread about the gun for sale. The friend made an anonymous phone call the his PO notifying her of his parole violation. In other words, the "friend" must have not been a real friend. The PO then contacted a detective in which they set up a sting. My husband never actually engaged in the act of the sale of the gun. He did not stop the vehicle at the arranged meeting spot for the under cover cop to look at the gun. He drove by the location and never stopped at the location. Agents and police pulled him over a mile or more away from the "meeting location". At that point he was arrested. The vehicle was immediately searched. He was not read his rights until AFTER he was taken to the jail. I will be reviewing the police report Tuesday.

    The bad thing is that day before his arrest I was making arrangements with his PO to pay off his restitution. I suppose too little too late.

    Please do not be cold hearted...
    I am an occupational therapist not a lawyer. My knowledge is elementary. Keep in mind that learning has to start somewhere. I joined this forum before this situation occured with intent to learn about corporate, real estate, criminal, and other aspects of law. I did take some offense to posts saying "below elementary knowledge." I could very well say to my stroke patients who have lost the ability to swallow, talk, or bath that its elementary knowledge to be able to do so. My family is ruined all because of Christmas presents and a poor decision. I do thank you for the responses thus far. They have been useful.
    Ma'am, I respect your honesty.

    Its just true that parolees really have no rights, and while i do also respect that he wanted to sell the gun for Christmas presents.. he definitely without a doubt knew that he should not do that. and he absolutely knew it would be a violation. I mean it is clear in the rules you posted, and I'm sure the PO went over it with him.

    If it were that important he should have had you do it. (not that selling guns to unknown persons on the internet is ever a good idea.)

    I once had a boyfriend on parole, and two weeks before he was to be released from that, his wife (i had no idea he was married) called his PO about guns that she in fact placed in the home, and he did an additional 5 years for it. (she told the PO he had guns and she was afraid for her life) there was no proof the guns were his, or that they were in the house, and he wasnt even home at the time the PO and authorities came to search the residence, but the fact was they were there , and the wife knew thats how to get him.

    So the moral of the story I just divulged is that parolees really have no rights of regular citizens, and theres nothing you can do now, except wait for him to come home again.

    I'm sorry.
  9. #9
    HighwayMan is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kae073 View Post
    ...He was not read his rights until AFTER he was taken to the jail. I will be reviewing the police report Tuesday.
    Not sure how relevant this is to anything. You do not have to be read your rights at the time of arrest, or at all, unless you are being interrogated while in custody.

    Nothing else in your post seems to indicate anything wrong with how the situation was handled.

    Your original question, if you are on parole do you not have full citizen rights while serving out your parole period?, seems to be irrelevant in this situation as well. The arrest of your husband would be legitimate whether he was on parole or not. This situation has nothing to do with his rights as a parolee vs his rights as a "regular" citizen, assuming a permit is required to possess a firearm in Michigan.

    He clearly violated his parole by simply being in possession of a firearm. There seems to be nothing "bad" about how he was found to be in violation.
  10. #10
    jsmith416 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighwayMan View Post
    The arrest of your husband would be legitimate whether he was on parole or not. This situation has nothing to do with his rights as a parolee vs his rights as a "regular" citizen, assuming a permit is required to possess a firearm in Michigan.
    No it wouldn't have been. No permit or license is required to buy, sell, or possess a rifle in Michigan and sales between private parties (of rifles) without going through a dealer are legal. The rules for handguns in Michigan are much stricter.
  11. #11
    FlyingRon is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsmith416 View Post
    No it wouldn't have been. No permit or license is required to buy, sell, or possess a rifle in Michigan and sales between private parties (of rifles) without going through a dealer are legal. The rules for handguns in Michigan are much stricter.
    In addition to violating the conditions of parole, he's also lost his "civil" rights for gun ownership for another three years AFTER parole / probation is completed (unless this was a crime of violence which is longer). Federally, it's a lifetime ban.
  12. #12
    dave33 is offline Senior Member
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    When you are on parole you are still under the juristiction of the dept. of prisons. He was granted parole, which means it can be revoked anytime. He hass very few rights. He basically has no more rights than an inmate, although realistically he can get away with a few more things because he is not monitored so closely. His parole can be revoked anytime w/out warning. From his most recent actions, it seems a revocation is soon to follow. goodluck.
  13. #13
    jsmith416 is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingRon View Post
    In addition to violating the conditions of parole, he's also lost his "civil" rights for gun ownership for another three years AFTER parole / probation is completed (unless this was a crime of violence which is longer). Federally, it's a lifetime ban.
    I understand that. I was responding specifically to the comment that it would be unlawful for a "regular" citizen to have an unregistered/unlicensed rifle in Michigan.
  14. #14
    HighwayMan is offline Senior Member
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    You didn't say it was a rifle, you said "gun" - silly me assumed it was a handgun.

    In any event, it seems like he was caught fair and square. He was turned in by someone and everything that happened in regards to that and the stop of his vehicle was legal.
  15. #15
    Dillon is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banned_Princess View Post
    as a matter of fact I think they do not.

    It has been explained to me that parolees have no rights.

    Who are you in this situation?

    OH op deleted his question about if a parolee can vote.

    I say no.



    **************************************************************************************************
    thats right because he wavied them to recieve the Parole, its in the papers he signed somewhere
    Last edited by Dillon; 12-30-2009 at 07:44 PM.

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