Can I be arrested for disiplining a minor visitor in my house?

[Your Name]

What is the name of your state? Tennessee
My husband's children are visiting from their Mom's. I asked one of them the other day not to tell their Mom about my personal business and not to steal any documents and take to her. (She has a history of stealing stuff and taking it home.) Last year I found a paper in her suitcase with some of my user ID's and Passwords on it. The year before she took some of my invoices from my trash. She told her mom what I said and her mom threatened to have me arrested for child abuse claiming it was mental abuse.

Can I be arrested for talking to the children about these issues if it upsets them?

Do I have the right to search their luggage before they leave my house?

Can I read any papers I find in my house that they have written. (They are not sealed. They are in a book in my livingroom.) Can I confront them about abusive language?

Thanks

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

What is the name of your state? Tennessee
My husband's children are visiting from their Mom's. I asked one of them the other day not to tell their Mom about my personal business and not to steal any documents and take to her. (She has a history of stealing stuff and taking it home.) Last year I found a paper in her suitcase with some of my user ID's and Passwords on it. The year before she took some of my invoices from my trash. She told her mom what I said and her mom threatened to have me arrested for child abuse claiming it was mental abuse.

Can I be arrested for talking to the children about these issues if it upsets them?

Do I have the right to search their luggage before they leave my house?

Can I read any papers I find in my house that they have written. (They are not sealed. They are in a book in my livingroom.) Can I confront them about abusive language?

Thanks

My response:

You can do or say anything you want in your house - - as long as the children are not in any danger, or potentially placed in danger, of their lives or welfare.

Tell their mother to shut the hell up, and take it to a judge - - let her waste her money. She's got nothing.

And, where's their father in this scenario? Why isn't he taking an active roll in searching them and their baggage before they leave your house?

IAAL

 

[Your Name]

Dad takes them somewhere while I search the luggage. If I find something I just take it out and dismiss it. Should I have them present when I search their luggage and bags? Should I just do it while they are not here and just retrieve my stuff and send them on their way to keep peace. I've tried to confront them with what I found last year but they called their mom and she told them to call the police because it is mental abuse. She give them "Right to Privacy" lectures and assures them that I have no right to go through their stuff. So in their eyes I'm breaking the law. I try to tell them my opinion, but then again they think its child abuse, get upset, call mom, etc.

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

Dad takes them somewhere while I search the luggage. If I find something I just take it out and dismiss it. Should I have them present when I search their luggage and bags? Should I just do it while they are not here and just retrieve my stuff and send them on their way to keep peace. I've tried to confront them with what I found last year but they called their mom and she told them to call the police because it is mental abuse. She give them "Right to Privacy" lectures and assures them that I have no right to go through their stuff. So in their eyes I'm breaking the law. I try to tell them my opinion, but then again they think its child abuse, get upset, call mom, etc.

My response:

Mamma Bear doesn't know what the hell she's talking about. However, to "keep the peace", Dad should be searching their persons, shoes and socks, pockets, and their luggage - - NOT YOU.

IAAL

 

[Boxcarbill]

What is the name of your state? Tennessee
My husband's children are visiting from their Mom's. I asked one of them the other day not to tell their Mom about my personal business and not to steal any documents and take to her. (She has a history of stealing stuff and taking it home.) Last year I found a paper in her suitcase with some of my user ID's and Passwords on it. The year before she took some of my invoices from my trash. She told her mom what I said and her mom threatened to have me arrested for child abuse claiming it was mental abuse.

Can I be arrested for talking to the children about these issues if it upsets them?

Do I have the right to search their luggage before they leave my house?

Can I read any papers I find in my house that they have written. (They are not sealed. They are in a book in my livingroom.) Can I confront them about abusive language?

Thanks

You may ask the children not to discuss you and your business with their mom but I can assure you that you cannot prevent them from doing so. If you do not wish to have documents removed from your trash, then shred the documents. Anyone is free to remove anything from your trash--the police, a neighbor, dumpster divers, anyone. Buy a shredder and use it.

While there is no law that prevents you from searching their luggage, there is also no law which prevents them from removing items from your trash or from discussing you with their mom. I don't know how old these children are but I can assure you that it is going to be impossible for you to get them to respect you and/or your privacy when you do not respect them or their privacy. It is human nature and children are human. They learn what they live. The older that the children are the less respect that they will have for your privacy when you search their luggage and read stuff that is not sealed yet expect them to respect your privacy--even on items which have been discarded.

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

Re: Re: Can I be arrested for disiplining a minor visitor in my house?

You may ask the children not to discuss you and your business with their mom but I can assure you that you cannot prevent them from doing so. If you do not wish to have documents removed from your trash, then shred the documents. Anyone is free to remove anything from your trash--the police, a neighbor, dumpster divers, anyone. Buy a shredder and use it.

While there is no law that prevents you from searching their luggage, there is also no law which prevents them from removing items from your trash or from discussing you with their mom. I don't know how old these children are but I can assure you that it is going to be impossible for you to get them to respect you and/or your privacy when you do not respect them or their privacy. It is human nature and children are human. They learn what they live. The older that the children are the less respect that they will have for your privacy when you search their luggage and read stuff that is not sealed yet expect them to respect your privacy--even on items which have been discarded.

My response:

I really have to disagree with you, BCB. It's no longer a matter of "respect" - - it's a matter of financial safety and privacy for our writer. "Respect" has obviously flown out the window a long, long time ago. The mother of these children is obviously behind their "spying". The children have "learned what they live" from their mother instructing them to find, locate, obtain and bring to her any "important-looking" paperwork. Why else would this paperwork be important to the children and in their possession?

Let's take another quick look at what our writer said - - "Last year I found a paper in her suitcase with some of my user ID's and Passwords on it."

Obviously, this wasn't "trash" and it was important, personal, financial information about our writer - - the step-mother! It wasn't information about "daddy", but about someone who has nothing to do with Momma Bear's problems with Daddy.

So, with all due respect to you BCB, she was absolutely justified, and respect is obviously no longer a consideration. Our writer's husband (the daddy) should be the one conducting the searches, and continue do so. Otherwise, if Dad refuses this chore, then our writer is perfectly justified in disallowing these little b@astard spies into her home.

IAAL

 

[Boxcarbill]

Re: Re: Re: Can I be arrested for disiplining a minor visitor in my house?

My response:

I really have to disagree with you, BCB. It's no longer a matter of "respect" - - it's matter of financial safety and privacy for our writer. The mother of these children is obviously behind their "spying". The children have "learned what they live" from their mother instructing them to find, locate and bring to her any "important-looking" paperwork. Why else would this paperwork be important to the children and in their possession?

Let's take another quick look at what our writer said - - "Last year I found a paper in her suitcase with some of my user ID's and Passwords on it."

Obviously, this wasn't "trash" and it was important, personal, financial information about our writer - - the step-mother! It wasn't information about "daddy", but about someone who has nothing to do with Momma Bear's problems with Daddy.

So, with all due respect to you BCB, she was absolutely justified, and respect is obviously no longer a consideration. Our writer's husband (the daddy) should be the one conducting the searches, and continue do so. Otherwise, if Dad refuses this chore, then our writer is perfectly justified in disallowing these little b@astard spies into her home.

IAAL

My advice stands. For financial security, never keep a password and user identification information together . Banks tell you not to do this; credit card companies tell you not to do this; it shouldn't need to be repeated, here. Get a shredder. The U.S.S.C. has long since decided the case that there can be no expectation of privacy in one's garbage. Anyone can remove anything from the garbage. Buy a shredder, preferably a cross shredder and shred. Nor did I say that she wasn't justified in searching. I said that she will never get their respect and she will not. Her problem is not going to be solved by searching luggage. The kids will just become better at concealing it and disposing of it without putting it into their luggage or even on their person (I don't know if she is prepared to do strip searches.) But there are a number of ways to disseminate the information without concealing it on your person or in luggage.

 

[Your Name]

Thank you for all your input. I feel better knowing other people's opinions are simular to mine. I did buy a shedder immediately after the first incident. The passwords were for signing on to various web pages such as games and mp3 pages. That is why they were kept by the computer. They were not important and didn't list what site the user names and pw went to. But the fact that the child (8 yrs at the time), felt it was worthy of taking and mom could figure it out later. I believe that their mom rewards or praises them when they bring pertenant info home to her and whoever said they were spying for their mom is exactly what I suspect. Their mom has been informed that if she teaches them to steal and they grow up to think stealing is okay, then she should remember where they learned it. I am more concious of what I leave laying around and the child, now 10, is taking things like shampoo, jewelery, money, etc. I don't know what she took the shampoo for, but I guess she liked the way it made her hair look.

 

[I AM ALWAYS LIABLE]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Can I be arrested for disiplining a minor visitor in my house?

My advice stands. For financial security, never keep a password and user identification information together . Banks tell you not to do this; credit card companies tell you not to do this; it shouldn't need to be repeated, here. Get a shredder. The U.S.S.C. has long since decided the case that there can be no expectation of privacy in one's garbage. Anyone can remove anything from the garbage. Buy a shredder, preferably a cross shredder and shred. Nor did I say that she wasn't justified in searching. I said that she will never get their respect and she will not. Her problem is not going to be solved by searching luggage. The kids will just become better at concealing it and disposing of it without putting it into their luggage or even on their person (I don't know if she is prepared to do strip searches.) But there are a number of ways to disseminate the information without concealing it on your person or in luggage.

My advice stands. For financial security, never keep a password and user identification information together . Banks tell you not to do this; credit card companies tell you not to do this; it shouldn't need to be repeated, here. Get a shredder.

MY RESPONSE: So, let's assume that our writer is the most stupid person on the planet because the "Banks tell you not to do this; credit card companies tell you not to do this". So, what's your point?

All because our writer doesn't follow common sense rules IN HER HOME, does that mean that her financial papers are subject to theft at the hands of HER OWN step children, and that it's "open season" on our writer's privacy?

You know, I don't recall that our writer said anything about "trash" when she said, "Last year I found a paper in her suitcase with some of my user ID's and Passwords on it." For all we know, the little spies found that information in her desk.

It was later said by our writer, "The year before she took some of my invoices from my trash." As to that portion of our writer's post, I agree with you.

There was a few instances mentioned, BCB - - one instance having nothing to do with "trash", and the other was about obtaining information from the trash.



The U.S.S.C. has long since decided the case that there can be no expectation of privacy in one's garbage. Anyone can remove anything from the garbage.

MY RESPONSE: I am fully aware of the USSC decision in this type of situation. I'm not completely devoid of knowing and understanding current case law. However, at the same time, you don't expect that children - - especially the ones that you house and feed - - will be your worst nightmare either. The USSC decision had to do with police searches, and not stepchildren (and I know what "penumbra" means).




Buy a shredder, preferably a cross shredder and shred.

MY RESPONSE: And the day that's required is the day those little b@stards would never step foot in my home ever again.





Nor did I say that she wasn't justified in searching. I said that she will never get their respect and she will not. Her problem is not going to be solved by searching luggage. The kids will just become better at concealing it and disposing of it without putting it into their luggage or even on their person (I don't know if she is prepared to do strip searches.) But there are a number of ways to disseminate the information without concealing it on your person or in luggage.

MY RESPONSE: Respect isn't what she needs. She needs security and privacy in her own damn house - - that's what she needs! Why "respect" was ever mentioned by you in the first place, I'll never understand. Like I said, "respect" is not there, and has been gone for some time.

So, your "better concealing" remark only backs up my statement that these little schleps should never be allowed in the house again.

IAAL

 

[Boxcarbill]

Look IAAL, I don't care what the poster does. She asks for advice and I gave her my advice, including that neither her search of the children's luggage nor the children's removal of information from the garbage is illegal--regardlesss of whether removal from the garbage is done by a police officer, neighbors, step children or anyone else. The ruling is that there is no expectation of privacy in garbabge and that decision is not limited to police officers. If she feels that searching luggage will offer her greater protection than a shredder and keeping IDs separate from passwords, then by all means forget my suggestions of keeping separate ID numbers and passwords (and I'm glad to see that these were Internet access ID, which I suspected) and the shredder. If she doesn't want the children in her home, I'm certain that could be arranged with the agreement of the none custodial parent, her husband, and a modification of the order. I rather suspect that within the next three years the children will be asking their mom if they have to go visit their Dad.