Can the police charge you for refusing to help them if you done nothing illegal?

[pauranella]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida

Recently, I was at the Publix grocery store, where someone approached me asking if I wanted to buy his food stamps. I responded no, and continued about my business. A few minutes later I was approached by the manager and someone in plain clothes who identified himself as a police officer and asked me what was that guy asking me. I told them what had transpired, where I was told next that the guy was standing outside the store, and that I needed to approach him and tell him I wanted to buy his foodstamps. I told the officer, no I didn't want to get involved, where he responded I didn't have a choice. I said again I did not want to get involved where he appeared to get angry and said I already was involved, and that at that point I could be charged with a criminal conspiracy since I admitted I had discussed buyingthis guy's foodstamps with him. I responded I did not discuss it, he asked me if I wanted to, and I told him no. Then he (law enforcement officer) with managerapproached me and asked what was discussed and I told them the truth of what transpired. How am I involved in a criminal conspiracy? The officer give me a hard look and asked if I had ID on me. I said yes, and he said to give it to him, which I complied. I was then taken to the office, patted down, and then handcuffed, being told it was for his protection, while he ran a warrant check on me. When it came back with no warrants, he took the cuffs off, but told me if he wanted to push it, he could charge me with obstructing a police investigation, but since I had no record, he was releasing me, where he wouldn't have if I did have priors, telling me it would be harder to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that I had obstructed if I had no record. I was then released, where he informed me that by a law, a citizen is required to assist the police when asked to do so, as long as it is not putting that person in immediate danger, and to not comply is a class E felony, punishable by 1 to 3 years in jail, and that he was going to remember me and that I refused to co-operate, and will keep it in mind the next time he encounters me, and that I used my get out of jail free card with him. My question is, can the police charge you for refusing to help them in their cases if you in fact have done nothing illegal to start with?

 

[Proserpina]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida

Recently, I was at the Publix grocery store, where someone approached me asking if I wanted to buy his food stamps. I responded no, and continued about my business. A few minutes later I was approached by the manager and someone in plain clothes who identified himself as a police officer and asked me what was that guy asking me. I told them what had transpired, where I was told next that the guy was standing outside the store, and that I needed to approach him and tell him I wanted to buy his foodstamps. I told the officer, no I didn't want to get involved, where he responded I didn't have a choice. I said again I did not want to get involved where he appeared to get angry and said I already was involved, and that at that point I could be charged with a criminal conspiracy since I admitted I had discussed buyingthis guy's foodstamps with him. I responded I did not discuss it, he asked me if I wanted to, and I told him no. Then he (law enforcement officer) with managerapproached me and asked what was discussed and I told them the truth of what transpired. How am I involved in a criminal conspiracy? The officer give me a hard look and asked if I had ID on me. I said yes, and he said to give it to him, which I complied. I was then taken to the office, patted down, and then handcuffed, being told it was for his protection, while he ran a warrant check on me. When it came back with no warrants, he took the cuffs off, but told me if he wanted to push it, he could charge me with obstructing a police investigation, but since I had no record, he was releasing me, where he wouldn't have if I did have priors, telling me it would be harder to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that I had obstructed if I had no record. I was then released, where he informed me that by a law, a citizen is required to assist the police when asked to do so, as long as it is not putting that person in immediate danger, and to not comply is a class E felony, punishable by 1 to 3 years in jail, and that he was going to remember me and that I refused to co-operate, and will keep it in mind the next time he encounters me, and that I used my get out of jail free card with him. My question is, can the police charge you for refusing to help them in their cases if you in fact have done nothing illegal to start with?

You are always free to say, "I'm sorry officer, I didn't see anything at all and I can't remember having that conversation with that guy I don't even know to begin with".

You weren't under arrest, and you didn't have to answer anything at all.

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida

... My question is, can the police charge you for refusing to help them in their cases if you in fact have done nothing illegal to start with?

Yes. You can potentially be charged with a second degree misdemeanor.

Florida Statute 843.06, Neglect or refusal to aid peace officer:
http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2011/843.06

 

[justalayman]

The closest applicable law I can find is this;


843.06 Neglect or refusal to aid peace officers.—Whoever, being required in the name of the state by any officer of the Florida Highway Patrol, police officer, beverage enforcement agent, or watchman, neglects or refuses to assist him or her in the execution of his or her office in a criminal case, or in the preservation of the peace, or the apprehending or securing of any person for a breach of the peace, or in case of the rescue or escape of a person arrested upon civil process, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.



Darn you Quincy.


While, and not totally unusual for me, I disagree with any police agency being able to conscript a citizen into the aid of the police it appears, at least in Florida, it is a criminal offense to refuse. It's not a felony but rather a misdemeanor.

 

[HighwayMan]

Applying that statute here is a bit of a stretch I think. It's meant more for situations where physical help is required rather than compelling someone to be an informant. At least that's my view.

 

[quincy]

The closest applicable law I can find is this;...

Well, my post DID have the closest applicable law.

While, and not totally unusual for me, I disagree with any police agency being able to conscript a citizen into the aid of the police it appears, at least in Florida, it is a criminal offense to refuse. It's not a felony but rather a misdemeanor.

There are similar laws in many (most? all?) states.

 

[justalayman]

Applying that statute here is a bit of a stretch I think. It's meant more for situations where physical help is required rather than compelling someone to be an informant. At least that's my view.

While I believe it improper to force a person into aid as explained, to me, the way the law is written could surely be applied here. While the "refuses to aid in the execution of his office" is vague enough to be applicable, I suspect the courts may not support such a use though. Can you imagine grabbing Joe citizen off the street and demanding he make an observer drug purchase from some big time dealer? That is a scary thought.


If I was the OP I think I would be paying a visit to the cops precinct and have a chat with his superiors.

 

[pauranella]

Applying that statute here is a bit of a stretch I think. It's meant more for situations where physical help is required rather than compelling someone to be an informant. At least that's my view.

The sense I got was he was trying to scare me into helping him set this guy up, and if I had a record, he would have taken that stretch to get me to co-operate under duress, but because I didn't have a record, he decided it wasn't worth the hassle, but was still trying to scare me. Which he did to some degree.

Thanks. The answers were helpful.

 

[quincy]

The sense I got was he was trying to scare me into helping him set this guy up, and if I had a record, he would have taken that stretch to get me to co-operate under duress, but because I didn't have a record, he decided it wasn't worth the hassle, but was still trying to scare me. Which he did to some degree.

Thanks. The answers were helpful.

The police officer might have believed the law cited earlier covered a situation such as the one you encountered in the store. It could, I suppose ... but I agree with HighwayMan and justalayman that, were you to actually be charged with a misdemeanor under that law, it would probably not hold up to a challenge in court.

You could file a complaint with the officer's department.

 

[dave33]

The police officer might have believed the law cited earlier covered a situation such as the one you encountered in the store. It could, I suppose ... but I agree with HighwayMan and justalayman that, were you to actually be charged with a misdemeanor under that law, it would probably not hold up to a challenge in court.

You could file a complaint with the officer's department.

I completely agree, although if charged I find it highly unlikely that the police report would read like the o.p.'s thread. Maybe a thing or two to support the charge?

 

[pauranella]

I completely agree, although if charged I find it highly unlikely that the police report would read like the o.p.'s thread. Maybe a thing or two to support the charge?

I think he was trying to scare me into helping him, because when he first asked me (actually he didn't ask, he told me this is what he needed me to do, exact words) and I refused, he tried to say I had admitted to conspiring to buy this guy's food stamps just by discussing it with it him, which I countered back to the officer how is it a conspiracy if the guy approaches me and asks and I reply no, then tell them what he asked me when they approached me? That was when he told me to come with him, and I was taken into the office, and placed in cuffs. I still don't get that? what exactly did I do to be put in cuffs, patted down, pockets checked, wallet gone through, and have a warrant check done on me, unless it was to intimidate me into co-operating? The only other thing I can assume is he believed me to be a criminal element as well, for refusing to help, and decided to go fishing.

He did say I wasn't under arrest, btw, just being detained pending his investigation, but why was I handcuffed is what don't get?

 

[not2cleverRed]

I think he was trying to scare me into helping him, because when he first asked me (actually he didn't ask, he told me this is what he needed me to do, exact words) and I refused, he tried to say I had admitted to conspiring to buy this guy's food stamps just by discussing it with it him, which I countered back to the officer how is it a conspiracy if the guy approaches me and asks and I reply no, then tell them what he asked me when they approached me? That was when he told me to come with him, and I was taken into the office, and placed in cuffs. I still don't get that? what exactly did I do to be put in cuffs, patted down, pockets checked, wallet gone through, and have a warrant check done on me, unless it was to intimidate me into co-operating? The only other thing I can assume is he believed me to be a criminal element as well, for refusing to help, and decided to go fishing.

He did say I wasn't under arrest, btw, just being detained pending his investigation, but why was I handcuffed is what don't get?

Have you followed the advice to report this to the local precinct?

As uncomfortable an experience as this has been for you, I strongly suspect that if you had played along and "helped" you would have been charged with something as well.

 

[pauranella]

Have you followed the advice to report this to the local precinct?

As uncomfortable an experience as this has been for you, I strongly suspect that if you had played along and "helped" you would have been charged with something as well.

I don't understand. He was threatening to charge me for not helping, and treated me like a perp. How would I been charged for helping, if I had?

Also, I don't think reporting it is such a good idea. The local law enforcement in my community have a reputation for harassing and roughing people up really bad, in fact, I saw a woman officer immediately pepper spray a shoplifter once, as soon as he walked out the door, who wasn't resisting, but was charged with resisting with violence and battery on an officer.

 

[not2cleverRed]

I don't understand. He was threatening to charge me for not helping, and treated me like a perp. How would I been charged for helping, if I had?

Also, I don't think reporting it is such a good idea. The local law enforcement in my community have a reputation for harassing and roughing people up really bad, in fact, I saw a woman officer immediately pepper spray a shoplifter once, as soon as he walked out the door, who wasn't resisting, but was charged with resisting with violence and battery on an officer.

Buying food stamps is a crime. If you had made the offer, at the direction of the police officer, it would be your word against his that you were just following directions. Yes, you could plead entrapment, but not having charges in the first place is preferable.

Selling food stamps for cash is a crime. If the cop weren't intent on getting a 2 for 1 special, he would have asked you to file a report, and used that as the basis of pursuing the other person.

Furthermore, most grocery stores frown upon sales of non-store items on their premises - the store manager could have taken your report (combined with the likely sales footage) and got the guy kicked out of the store.

They are not going to pepper spray you at the precinct for filing a report. (BTW, how do you know this plainclothesman was actually a cop?) They are not going to tackle you at the precinct for asking to speak to someone about a complaint about a police officer's behavior.

However, if you are terrified of the police, I suggest that you at least write a letter to the corporate headquarters of Publix supermarkets (NOT email) expressing briefly your dissatisfaction with your shopping experience. Less is more, but this should include the fact that you take a dim view of store management condoned attempted entrapment of law abiding customers. If you believe that you were targeted due to some sort of profiling, feel free to throw that it in.

 

[pauranella]

Buying food stamps is a crime. If you had made the offer, at the direction of the police officer, it would be your word against his that you were just following directions. Yes, you could plead entrapment, but not having charges in the first place is preferable.

Selling food stamps for cash is a crime. If the cop weren't intent on getting a 2 for 1 special, he would have asked you to file a report, and used that as the basis of pursuing the other person.

Furthermore, most grocery stores frown upon sales of non-store items on their premises - the store manager could have taken your report (combined with the likely sales footage) and got the guy kicked out of the store.

They are not going to pepper spray you at the precinct for filing a report. (BTW, how do you know this plainclothesman was actually a cop?) They are not going to tackle you at the precinct for asking to speak to someone about a complaint about a police officer's behavior.

However, if you are terrified of the police, I suggest that you at least write a letter to the corporate headquarters of Publix supermarkets (NOT email) expressing briefly your dissatisfaction with your shopping experience. Less is more, but this should include the fact that you take a dim view of store management condoned attempted entrapment of law abiding customers. If you believe that you were targeted due to some sort of profiling, feel free to throw that it in.

He showed me his badge, which was legit, and said the store had been watching this guy awhile now, and that they needed to catch him in the act. That's why I was approached when they saw him talking to me. Also, I don't mean that they would pepper spray me down at the district. I meant I don't want to cause any further bad blood with the local PD, if my refusing to help already has. As you said, my word against theirs.

I already did complain to the main manager of that Publix a few days later. He did apologize profusely, but said the officer was there by their request, and once the police take control of a situation, it is really out of their hands what happens next. I told him I almost didn't come back, and was very embarrassed because of an employee walking by saw me handcuffed, and that I shopped there regularly. He apologized once again and said he was very sorry.

Incidentally, according to the local arrest search I just did a few minutes ago, the guy did get locked up a couple of a days later. I recognized his mug shot. But it wasn't for selling food stamps. It was for capias of unpaid child support, loitering, trespass on property other than a structure or conveyance, and possession of drug paraphernalia to introduce a controlled substance. At least that's what the charges read.