Can police take your property without an arrest?

[John P]

What is the name of your state? Massachusetts

A few days ago I had a scary incident where my local police stopped me on the sidewalk and questioned me for 20 minutes or so. It was clear that they suspected I was a criminal, in fact they acted as though it was completely obvious, but they never explained what I had allegedly done. On the other hand, there was no violence, and other than a quick pat-down, they didn't search me. I think this counts a "Terry stop".

One of the first things they asked me was what I had in my pockets (they can't search a person at this stage, as I understand it). I said I had a digital camera. They asked to see it. I took it out of my pocket and handed it to the officer. Then they asked me a series of questions about the camera, like what model was it, how large was the memory card, what color was the memory card(!!) and what pictures did I have stored on it. Obviously they thought I had stolen my camera and they wanted to see if I knew any details about it. I don't think they were checking any of what I said, or making any notes.

So eventually they decided they had to let me go. ("The only reason you aren't in handcuffs now is I haven't got any evidence against you." Well, no excrement, Sherlock.) Naturally I asked for my camera back. No, they said. Well then, can I have a receipt? At this point the cop became very businesslike, and scribbled "Digital camera logged into evidence" on the back of his business card and "Report #1234" (which isn't the real number) on the front, and handed it to me. I have a strong feeling that if I hadn't asked for the receipt, I never would have got one.

What I want to know is, was this legal? As far as I know, there's no proof that any crime occurred, and certainly no proof that I stole anything. It's not clear how I'm going to get my camera back, though the police department website says something about property can be claimed when a case is closed. But is this a "case"?

Note: I don't think it's relevant what I suspect about the reason why they stopped me. It's possible that someone thought I was acting suspiciously. But I have a clean record and the police here have never dealt with me before.

 

[xylene]

Well, go to the police department, and demand your camera back, and a coherent explanation.

If that doesn't work just start ranting and raving.

Policeman was a powerhungry scum.

Good luck.

 

[John P]

I was hoping for serious responses, not someone's lame jokes.

 

[tranquility]

I agree, xylene was being serious. However, his advice is not entirely unsound. Go to the station and ask for your property. If they won't give it to you they will give you the name of the detective in charge of the investigation and you can ask him what's going on.

 

[You Are Guilty]

There's a reason Internal Affairs exists...

 

[onebreath]

That was going to be my response to. Go down to the police station and request your camera back. If they don't have it, or can't give it to you, or whatever, make sure a note is made there that you came by to retrieve your camera that was taken on xxdate. Period. What else can you do? I'd want my camera back. There were no charges made against you so it was a completely unlawful act. AFTER getting your camera back, if it were me (but I do things some people wouldn't do), I would request to talk to the chief of police and tell him what happened.

onebreath

 

[BoredAtty]

Naturally I asked for my camera back. No, they said.

Legally, they would need to have probable cause that it was evidence with regard to a crime, otherwise it would be an unlawful seizure in violation of the 4th Amendment.

As others have stated, you should demand an explanation.

 

[garrula lingua]

Am I the only one who laughed at the:

[It's possible that someone thought I was acting suspiciously.

OK, under whose skirt did you have that camera ?

 

[BL]

I wouldn't go ranting and raving , it could cause a Disorderly .

I would however demand the camera back or an explanation .

 

[xylene]

I wouldn't go ranting and raving , it could cause a Disorderly.

Short of an imminent arrest I would not leave without either my property or an explanation for my impounded property whereabouts and the procedure for claiming it.

 

[John P]

garrula lingua, you need to end a quote with [/quote], or it doesn't work properly.

I know how!

> It's possible that someone thought I was acting suspiciously.

OK, under whose skirt did you have that camera ?

It seemed as though there wasn't going to be anything in response here except idiocy, but it looks as if Xylene sets the bottom level and there are a few people trying to do something positive. He seems to have the plan of trying to get people to put themselves in the wrong, or even get arrested on new charges. Well, forget that.

I wasn't going to tell the whole sad tale, but if people are going to make up amusing stories (no better than cops, eh) here's the real one:

I live in an outlying part of town, across from a small park. It's a favorite spot for the kids to have beer parties, so they make us get (and pay for) parking permits to park on the street at night. I was near the center of town, and I noticed signs saying "Permit parking only 8am-5pm". It's far enough from home that it could be useful to drive there and park on the street, and I wondered if my overnight parking permit was the same as the daytime permit they issue there. So I stepped off the kerb and walked around a few cars to look at stickers in the back windows. I had to look quite closely to be sure that there wasn't some difference in the printing. Well, I think someone saw me and got suspicious, because a couple of blocks later there were flashing blue lights and a cop who was absolutely, totally certain that I was a criminal. I can't be sure of this, though, because they never asked me where I'd been or what I'd been doing, and they never told me what their witness had told them. But I think that was it. The issue with the camera was that it would be a small object easy to steal, not whatever I might have done with it. Sorry if anyone's cute little fantasies just got deflated.

That "probable cause that it was evidence with regard to a crime, otherwise it would be an unlawful seizure" point is a good one. Let's say they believed a crime had taken place--would that make it legal? They certainly didn't know what had been taken from where, but suppose their informant had said "That guy is breaking into cars"? As opposed to "That guy is taking an interest in cars and it looks suspicious"? I imagine it comes down to how "probable" the cause has to be.

By the way, it happened 1 week ago today.

 

[Some Random Guy]

So what did the police at the station say when you came in and asked for your camera back?

If you refuse to use the advice given, your only recourse is to go pay a lawyer $500 to drive over to the station with you to ask for your camera back.

 

[CdwJava]

John, as has been repeated: Go to the agency and ask for the return of the camera or the lawful authority under which it is still being held.

Let us know what they say in reply.

If you don't want to go to the police department, then write off the camera as a loss and move on.

- Carl

 

[John P]

Basically I'm expecting, at least so far, that they'd give me the camera back if I asked for it and presented the receipt. The Police Department has a website where they say that property can be reclaimed "when a case is closed", and they list the name and phone number of the detective who's in charge of evidence. But when would a case be called "closed" if there was never an arrest or a proof that there was a crime in the first place? I don't know that. But I certainly wouldn't get a lawyer to accompany me if it's just going to be a matter of asking! Even if they put up some kind of objection, I think my next step is Small Claims Court. Can I sue the town there? I don't see why not.

But really the question I wanted to ask was whether taking my property was legal in the first place. I'd never heard of something like this, where they don't make an arrest or bring any kind of legal case (apart from a cop's opinion on a street corner) but seize property anyway.

 

[CdwJava]

Basically I'm expecting, at least so far, that they'd give me the camera back if I asked for it and presented the receipt. The Police Department has a website where they say that property can be reclaimed "when a case is closed", and they list the name and phone number of the detective who's in charge of evidence. But when would a case be called "closed" if there was never an arrest or a proof that there was a crime in the first place? I don't know that. But I certainly wouldn't get a lawyer to accompany me if it's just going to be a matter of asking! Even if they put up some kind of objection, I think my next step is Small Claims Court. Can I sue the town there? I don't see why not.

But really the question I wanted to ask was whether taking my property was legal in the first place. I'd never heard of something like this, where they don't make an arrest or bring any kind of legal case (apart from a cop's opinion on a street corner) but seize property anyway.

Without knowing why the officer took it, who can say whether it was lawful or not? It sounds very suspicious, but there might very well be SOME reason why it was taken.

If they don't give it back and they can't cite a justification to hold onto it, you probably could go to small claims court for compensation for the camera.

- Carl