Can you violate a protection order if your talked to in court by the protected?

[hbogey31]

Doulas County, Colorado

 

[quincy]

No. But you should direct all of your comments to the judge and you should avoid engaging in any conversation with the other party, even if it is to respond to questions or comments made by the other party to you directly.

 

[Silverplum]

No. But you should direct all of your comments to the judge and you should avoid engaging in any conversation with the other party, even if it is to respond to questions or comments made by the other party to you directly.

And avoid any attempts at contact in the hallway, restrooms, elevators, stairwells, and parking lots.

No staring or glaring, either.

 

[hbogey31]

More info.

Doulas County, Colorado

I was in court with my wife for my divorce preliminary meeting. My wife filed a protection order against me and I had to travel so we went to the other court to get permission for me to travel , since this was a DV harassment case( which was dropped) my ex had to give the ok for me to travel, so my lawyer asked her to stick around and inform the Judge she had no issue with my travel.

We sat down on court on different rows and she spoke to me about the kids visitation and I replied" we cant talk about that until the protection order is modified"hats it one sentence . A court advocate that had originally helped my ex-wife fill out her paper work witnessed this and told the court officer at which time they pulled my exwife out into the hall , threatened and intimidated her into saying I violated the order and made her sign a document. She was noticeably not wanting to do this but the DA according to my ex was forceful and insistent I had violated and made her sign the paper. SO I went to jail and now have a charge for violating the court order.

My question is , isn't there a safe harbor law or something when in court dealing with these matters? I mean otherwise the protection order also states stay 100 yards away from her at all time. The whole court house isn't a 100 yards long, the court room is 1500 sq feet tops. How do you represent yourself or face your accused if you are in violation of the order the second you walk in the courthouse? We where in the court on court business as directed by the courts and my lawyer . This doesn't seem legal otherwise every DV case where the victim is present in court you are automatically in violation of that order just walking through the door, seems like a double standard they can apply as they see fit , this seems illegal in practice .

Right now they are not offering me anything - guilty or go to trial

Also me and my ex-wife have since reconciled and she is on my side if needed.

How can I fight this, is it legal for them to do this to me. I have a lawyer but he's the same lawyer that represented me in the divorce and I don't believe he's that good on criminal cases. I had a criminal lawyer with me today, his protégé and he said he has never heard of a case like this and has no idea how to deal with it.

I feel like this is the courts running me up the river and I cant understand how this is legal in the first place, plus ex-wife is willing to help

Any advice?

R.O.

P.S.-At the point I was charged with this we where already reconciled , no staring or glaring was happening. We are now in 100A% reconciliation and sharing the kids and expenses and have made every effort to be friends for the kids sake. I just cant see how they can make a case out of this, it seems to go against the very nature of the order. How can they load the order with verbiage that makes it impossible to come to court if the protected is there???

 

[Silverplum]

Get an attorney from Denver. If your attorney doesn't know what to do , toss him.

Doulas County, Colorado

I was in court with my wife for my divorce preliminary meeting. My wife filed a protection order against me and I had to travel so we went to the other court to get permission for me to travel , since this was a DV case my ex had to give the ok for me to travel, so my lawyer asked her to stick around and inform the Judge she had no issue with my travel.

We sat down on court on different rows and she spoke to me about the kids visitation and I replied" we cant talk about that until the protection order is modified"hats it one sentence . A court advocate that had originally helped my ex-wife fill out her paper work witnessed this and told the court officer at which time they pulled my exwife out into the hall , threatened and intimidated her into saying I violated the order and made her sign a document. She was noticeably not wanting to do this but the DA according to my ex was forceful and insistent I had violated and made her sign the paper. SO I went to jail and now have a charge for violating the court order.

My question is , isn't there a safe harbor law or something when in court dealing with these matters? I mean otherwise the protection order also states stay 100 yards away from her at all time. The whole court house isn't a 100 yards long, the court room is 1500 sq feet tops. How do you represent yourself or face your accused if you are in violation of the order the second you walk in the courthouse? We where in the court on court business as directed by the courts and my lawyer . This doesn't seem legal otherwise every DV case where the victim is present in court you are automatically in violation of that order just walking through the door, seems like a double standard they can apply as they see fit , this seems illegal in practice .

Right now they are not offering me anything - guilty or go to trial

Also me and my ex-wife have since reconciled and she is on my side if needed.

How can I fight this, is it legal for them to do this to me. I have a lawyer but he's the same lawyer that represented me in the divorce and I don't believe he's that good on criminal cases. I had a criminal lawyer with me today, his protégé and he said he has never heard of a case like this and has no idea how to deal with it.

I feel like this is the courts running me up the river and I cant understand how this is legal in the first place, plus ex-wife is willing to help

Any advice?

R.O.

 

[quincy]

Doulas County, Colorado
... threatened and intimidated her into saying I violated the order and made her sign a document. She was noticeably not wanting to do this but the DA according to my ex was forceful and insistent I had violated and made her sign the paper. SO I went to jail and now have a charge for violating the court order.

... Right now they are not offering me anything - guilty or go to trial

Also me and my ex-wife have since reconciled and she is on my side if needed.

How can I fight this, is it legal for them to do this to me. I have a lawyer but he's the same lawyer that represented me in the divorce and I don't believe he's that good on criminal cases. I had a criminal lawyer with me today, his protégé and he said he has never heard of a case like this and has no idea how to deal with it.

I feel like this is the courts running me up the river and I cant understand how this is legal in the first place, plus ex-wife is willing to help

Any advice?

R.O.

Where was your lawyer during this exchange? He should have advised you not to approach or speak to your wife at all while in court.

Technically, yes, you violated the protection order when you spoke with your wife in the courtroom. With a good attorney and a witness (other than your wife) stating you were not the one to initiate contact, you should be able to get the violation dismissed.

The fact that your wife is willing to help you does you little good with a domestic violence protection order. Many victims are afraid and will say and do whatever they can to see that their abuser is protected (in order to protect themselves from further abuse).

I agree with Silverplum. You want a good attorney representing you.

 

[Silverplum]

FYI to the unfamiliar: Denver is the big city near Douglas County.

 

[Ohiogal]

Where was your lawyer during this exchange? He should have advised you not to approach or speak to your wife at all while in court.

Technically, yes, you violated the protection order when you spoke with your wife in the courtroom. With a good attorney and a witness (other than your wife) stating you were not the one to initiate contact, you should be able to get the violation dismissed.

The fact that your wife is willing to help you does you little good with a domestic violence protection order. Many victims are afraid and will say and do whatever they can to see that their abuser is protected (in order to protect themselves from further abuse).

I agree with Silverplum. You want a good attorney representing you.

Ummm, even if the protected initiates contact, that matters not> HE is responsible for opening his mouth in violation of the protective order.

 

[quincy]

Ummm, even if the protected initiates contact, that matters not> HE is responsible for opening his mouth in violation of the protective order.

True. But, based strictly on what he has said here, I believe there is a better-than-even chance of the protection order violation being dismissed. He will want a good attorney.

 

[justalayman]

My question is , isn't there a safe harbor law or something when in court dealing with these matters? I mean otherwise the protection order also states stay 100 yards away from her at all time. The whole court house isn't a 100 yards long, the court room is 1500 sq feet tops. How do you represent yourself or face your accused if you are in violation of the order the second you walk in the courthouse? We where in the court on court business as directed by the courts and my lawyer . This doesn't seem legal otherwise every DV case where the victim is present in court you are automatically in violation of that order just walking through the door, seems like a double standard they can apply as they see fit , this seems illegal in practice .

the only safe haven applicable is due to the reason you are both in court the 100 yards issue obviously cannot apply but be very clear; the only reason it does not apply is both are there for court purposes and there is absolutely no reason either party should approach or speak to the other without direction or approval from the court.



even being at the court, if you actually approached her or spoke to her you have violated the order.


If your explanation of the situation is actually as you state I would think it would ultimately be dismissed BUT there are several glaring issues that suggest it isn't quite as you state:


they do not FORCE anybody to sign a complaint. In fact, she wouldn't even have to sign a complaint if it was seen by court officers. So, the fact she did sign a complaint suggests she wanted the order enforced.

We sat down on court on different rows and she spoke to me about the kids visitation and I replied" we cant talk about that until the protection order is modified"hats it one sentence

who sat down first? If she did, you did violate the order by approaching her.


If the witness supports your statement and the fact she spoke to you first I would think it be an overzealous enforcement of the RO but again, you are where you are.

 

[quincy]

Doulas County, Colorado

... My wife filed a protection order against me ...

... she spoke to me about the kids visitation and I replied" we cant talk about that until the protection order is modified"hats it one sentence. ... A court advocate that had originally helped my ex-wife fill out her paper work witnessed this and told the court officer at which time they pulled my exwife out into the hall , threatened and intimidated her into saying I violated the order and made her sign a document. She was noticeably not wanting to do this but the DA according to my ex was forceful and insistent I had violated and made her sign the paper. SO I went to jail and now have a charge for violating the court order. ...

On a re-read, I agree with justalayman that some of this is not adding up.

How did you see what went on out in the hall, hbogey? Did you follow her? Did you speak with her afterwards?

A victim's advocate will never threaten or intimidate a victim.

I am not so convinced any more that you will get the violation dismissed but my advice remains the same. You need a good attorney.

 

[hbogey31]

Messed up thing is we have reconciled. And now that the main order is dropped we can communicate so we have gone over this, she even explained it to my first lawyer as she explained the whole event to me. Exactly who did what and who intimidated her. She says the DA made statements to the fact she had to sign the enforcement paper or be held in contempt or violation of something , she couldn't remember. And don't give advocates the benefit of the doubt , yes they do some awesome work but this advocate forced my ex-wife's hand several times in the whole process with the BS DV party line. My ex-wife refers to her in expletives due to how the case ended up( she lost both kids to only supervised visitation and has to submit to drug tests to see them and owes me for child support, completely the opposite of what she was trying to do ). Also my wife was fresh out of drug rehab when it happened and was messed up on anti depressants and mood stabilizers , it wouldn't have taken much to coerce her into signing a complaint. So yes their is some gray area here( what happened in the hall, who intimidated her , etc.) and I see how you guys are use to shooting holes in stories but It happened as stated , I am here for help not to mislead.

She walked in after me, and sat with my lawyer behind me, my lawyer got up to approach the clerk to ask for travel permit. She asked me a question, I looked over my shoulder and replied with one sentence. Advocate witnessed this and told court officer and DA . They take her to the hall , next thing i'm in cuffs .

The lawyer that facilitated my overnight stay is a family lawyer , today had a criminal lawyer, think I learned my lesson on that .

Still even he's confused on how to handle this , he says its rare to the tenth degree , so that's why I was asking here to see if anyone else has had this happen to them and how they dealt with it

Thank you all again for your advice!!

R.O.

 

[quincy]

Messed up thing is we have reconciled. And now that the main order is dropped we can communicate so we have gone over this, she even explained it to my first lawyer as she explained the whole event to me. Exactly who did what and who intimidated her. She says the DA made statements to the fact she had to sign the enforcement paper or be held in contempt or violation of something , she couldn't remember. And don't give advocates the benefit of the doubt , yes they do some awesome work but this advocate forced my ex-wife's hand several times in the whole process with the BS DV party line. My ex-wife refers to her in expletives due to how the case ended up( she lost both kids to only supervised visitation and has to submit to drug tests to see them and owes me for child support, completely the opposite of what she was trying to do ). Also my wife was fresh out of drug rehab when it happened and was messed up on anti depressants and mood stabilizers , it wouldn't have taken much to coerce her into signing a complaint. So yes their is some gray area here( what happened in the hall, who intimidated her , etc.) and I see how you guys are use to shooting holes in stories but It happened as stated , I am here for help not to mislead.

She walked in after me, and sat with my lawyer behind me, my lawyer got up to approach the clerk to ask for travel permit. She asked me a question, I looked over my shoulder and replied with one sentence. Advocate witnessed this and told court officer and DA . They take her to the hall , next thing i'm in cuffs .

The lawyer that facilitated my overnight stay is a family lawyer , today had a criminal lawyer, think I learned my lesson on that .

Still even he's confused on how to handle this , he says its rare to the tenth degree , so that's why I was asking here to see if anyone else has had this happen to them and how they dealt with it

Thank you all again for your advice!!

R.O.

If the criminal defense lawyer you currently have is confused on how to handle a criminal defense matter, I suggest you find another criminal defense attorney who does know how to handle criminal defense matters.

 

[Silverplum]

If the criminal defense lawyer you currently have is confused on how to handle a criminal defense matter, I suggest you find another criminal defense attorney who does know how to handle criminal defense matters.

Agreed.

Also, this is *not* "rare." Get a real attorney. Try Denver or CO Springs.

 

[davew128]

Ummm, even if the protected initiates contact, that matters not> HE is responsible for opening his mouth in violation of the protective order.

Playing devil's advocate here, isn't such a thing a 1st amendment violation?