cannot test in front probationer.

[shypee831]

What is the name of your state? California

Hello, I have been on probation now for 13 months and I have 5 months left. I was charged with possesion of herion, since I was arrested I've gotten clean of all drugs, I've gotten a job, and I attend Narcotics Anonymous meetings. Anyways, because it was a possesion charge, I have frequent urinalysis tests. This has not been a problem with me up until today, my probation officer stated that he has to be in the restroom while I urinate, This is a problem for me because as odd as it may seem, I am physically incapable to urinate while he is in the bathroom watching me. When I was tested for the first time I informed my probation officer of my problem, so for the last 12 months each time before I test he would check under my shirt and pant legs for any devices used for cheating the urine test and then he would let me urinate in the restroom by myself. Today when I reported for testing he told me that he is now required to be in the restroom while I test. I've tried to just relax and urinate with him there but it seems physically impossible. This is a serious problem for me and I don't know what do because I have nothing to hide, I just can't pee while he is in the same room.

1) I need to know my rights as a probationer.

2) Is there another way that I can test for drugs? (such as a blood specimen)

3) Is there any legal way that I can do the urine test on my own?



Thank you very much.What is the name of your state?

 

[The Occultist]

Unfortunately, since you screwed up, you essentially have no rights. You are completely subject to the terms of your probation. You might wanna read that over and see if it presents any rights to you in this regard, but I highly doubt that it will.

Standby as other posters may have further insight to offer.

Also, please limit your posts for the same question to one thread. You have two posts here, and another post in another forum. Please delete them in order to keep all the answers to your questions more organized.

 

[Eekamouse]

Don't act stupid. You, being a former drug user, ought to know why they want to be present when you urinate for their test. It's so you can't substitute someone else's urine for your own. I know this because I had one of my friends ask me for some of my urine once. I told her she could have it but only if she wanted it for a taste test. LOL.

 

[justalayman]

There is an actual name for what you have. In laymans terms I believe it would be "shy bladder". While not trying to minimize it, it is not as common as most drug users would have you believe.

Try asking your PO if a hair follicle test would be an acceptable substitute. I would suspect you would be liabel for the costs involved though.

 

[CdwJava]

Today when I reported for testing he told me that he is now required to be in the restroom while I test.

That is because there are devices out there now that are so small and clever that they can only be discovered with a full body strip search ... would you be willing to submit to a strip search prior to any test?

1) I need to know my rights as a probationer.

You have many rights, but by agreeing to probation you waived many of them. You have to comply or suffer the consequences. If your probation officer violates you, then you will have a right to challenge the violation in court.

2) Is there another way that I can test for drugs? (such as a blood specimen)

Sure. There are other ways to do it, but whether you can convince probation to do so is iffy.

They likely won't go for blood because there is both a time and a cost factor associated with a probationary blood test. However, maybe if you offered to pay for all the associated costs of the test they might agree - including the test along with the cost of the phlebotomist to respond to the Probation office, or the Probation officer to go to the hospital. Blood is not as simple as a urine test.

3) Is there any legal way that I can do the urine test on my own?

Uh ... no.

You can certainly pee in a cup on your own, but they are not obligated to accept it.


- Carl

 

[You Are Guilty]

There is an actual name for what you have. In laymans terms I believe it would be "shy bladder". While not trying to minimize it, it is not as common as most drug users would have you believe.

Try asking your PO if a hair follicle test would be an acceptable substitute. I would suspect you would be liabel for the costs involved though.

While I agree with you wholeheartedly, here's a recent case you might find interesting:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/10/05/2007-10-05_manhattan_federal_jury_awards_fired_blad-3.html

Manhattan Federal jury awards fired bladder-shy guy 225G

A former sludge boat captain's bashful bladder has won him $225,000 from the city.

A Manhattan Federal Court jury found that Joseph Kinneary, 54, was wrongly fired because a condition called paruresis prevented him from peeing into a cup at a random drug test in 2001.

His inability to urinate on cue cost Kinneary his captain's license in 2003, and the Department of Environmental Protection canned him a year later. The case marked the first time a federal judge has recognized paruresis as a disability covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act and it is believed to be the first time that a jury has weighed in on the issue.

But city attorneys contend paruresis isn't a federally recognized disability and said they are considering an appeal of Friday's verdict.

Kinneary's lawyer Ambrose Wotorson said his client even tried drinking three quarts of water for the December 2001 test but still couldn't urinate.

"It's not that he refused," Wotorson said. "He couldn't, and he had doctors' notes saying so."

Some 17 million people suffer from the social anxiety disorder, which is also called pee-shy and shy-bladder, according to the Maryland-based International Paruresis Association.

City attorney Patricia Miller said, "The jury sided with a sympathetic plaintiff and gave him a second chance. However, the federal regulations state that a urine drug test is required. Safety is of utmost importance and, to protect the public, captains must pass random drug tests."

Kinneary did pass hair, blood and saliva drug tests, but the city said the federal license requires a urine test.

"All personnel that refuse the federally mandated random drug test must be immediately removed from safety-sensitive positions, such as captain of a vessel," said city attorney Cindy Switzer.

Kinneary, who spent nearly 30 years as a merchant marine, wants his $62,000-a-year city job back, as well as the $8,000 per year he made in overtime.

He's been working as a biology teacher at a girls Catholic high school near his Suffolk County home and teaches classes at SUNY Farmingdale.

OP: Don't get your hopes up, this case means nothing to you other than NY juries are idiots.

 

[moburkes]

YAG, I agree. However, since he agreed to, and passed the other tests, why was the pee test so important?

 

[You Are Guilty]

YAG, I agree. However, since he agreed to, and passed the other tests, why was the pee test so important?

Rule (code) for licensing says "pee test" so until it's amended or otherwise broadened, pee tests it is. Still doesn't justify $225k though!

 

[justalayman]

Rule (code) for licensing says "pee test" so until it's amended or otherwise broadened, pee tests it is. Still doesn't justify $225k though!

although that case itself is interesting, how does it apply to OP. OP is not dealing with a licensure situation but condition of probation. I would suggest the courts may have the authority to allow a hair test.

As well, OP has not provided any support of an actual diagnosis of shy bladder.

the thing I want to know is; how do you prove you cannot pee in front of an audience? Whip it out in court and stand there for a couple hours trying? How long is long enough to determine that the claim is true?

 

[seniorjudge]

...
1) I need to know my rights as a probationer.

2) Is there another way that I can test for drugs? (such as a blood specimen)

3) Is there any legal way that I can do the urine test on my own?
....

None, no, and no.

 

[CdwJava]

I would suggest the courts may have the authority to allow a hair test.

The court COULD, but follicle tests tend to show a pattern of past use, not recent use. It can also test positive for exposure even without direct use. Also, the tests are different and there are some issues of unreliability with these tests.

- Carl

 

[fairisfair]

there are catheters. OUCH!!!

 

[You Are Guilty]

although that case itself is interesting, how does it apply to OP. OP is not dealing with a licensure situation but condition of probation. I would suggest the courts may have the authority to allow a hair test.

They very well may, but until someone with the authority to do so says anything other than "pee test", pee test remains the default and must be done. (Rather circular, I admit).

As well, OP has not provided any support of an actual diagnosis of shy bladder. the thing I want to know is; how do you prove you cannot pee in front of an audience? Whip it out in court and stand there for a couple hours trying? How long is long enough to determine that the claim is true?

Personally, I find it to be another "made up" (i.e. in your head) "disease", especially under the sudden-onset conditions posted, i.e. probation. But if you believe the shrinks, half the male population has it. Point being I don't think there is an established, objective test to confirm a diagnosis.

My guess is that if someone wants to test the power of their mind, vs the power of their kidneys and bladder, most of the time, the bladder wins that one.