Car search

[JustaPerson]

What is the name of your state?
Alabama
I was detained by Walmart security for taking of property.
I was not carrying an ID.
The Walmart security personnel searched my car along with the police that came to the store.
Was it legal for the police to search my car?
Was it legal for the WalMart store guy to help them search my car?
Nothing was found in the car, they only searched it because I did not have an ID. I did not give anyone permission to search the car.
I was detained in the store.
Also, is it right for some cities to have first offender programs and other cities to not have the same kind of programs. Seems like unfair punishment to me.

[FlyingRon]

What punishment?

Did you steal something?
Were you arrested (other than by Wal*Mart security)?
Were you charged with anything?

[CavemanLawyer]

If an officer has probable cause to arrest you than they have probable cause to search your vehicle that is in the vicinity. After all, if you stole property from that location, who is to say you don't have other people's stolen property in your car as well? Also, if the officer has already placed you under arrest than he/she can search your car incident to arrest or pursuant to an inventory.

During a police investigation a layman can actually act under the direction of a police officer and do some things that the officer could do. Its sort like being deputized just for that investigation. I don't think that would make the search unlawful, since the walmart guard was clearly working with and under the direction of the police officer.

Even if this were deemed an unlawful search, the only remedy for that is to suppress any evidence obtained so that it cannot be used against you in your trial. Since nothing was recovered, there is no harm and thus no remedy.

[tranquility]

I disagree a search incident to arrest would cover a person's vehicle as he came out of walmart. There can be many subtle facts involved, and the circut is important, but I don't see a search incident unless the person recently left the vehicle. If he left, entered the store, came out and approached his vehicle, not a good search. Overnight, if it is not removed, it might get towed and searched for inventory. Otherwise, I don't think so.

I agree that it does not seem like there are any damages, here. But, I'd certainly make a complaint to walmart(who you could probably sue for some minor things) and to the police for violating your rights.

[JustaPerson]

I was arrested. I did have something that I did't pay for.
It has not gone to trial yet.
I went in the store and never left.
i am not really mad that the police searched the car but I am really mad that the WalMart guy did.
I don't think the police should have, but, since I did not have my ID they figured I had a record and was some big catch.
I don't have a record - except for this now.
I was thinking maybe I could use the car search as leverage to get WalMart to drop the charges. If the WalMart guy search is legal that is not an option. Every city other than the one I live in drops the first charge and makes you do community service. This one doesn't. Do you think I should talk to the store manager or the LP manager or maybe a district manager? The WalMart guys went a bit overboard. If they had believed anything I said I would not have this problem . They said they never believed anybody that everybody lies.

[Zigner]

The rules against search/seizure apply to the police, not Walmart Security.
Did they find anything "bad" in the car? If not then "no harm, no foul" (you won't get anywhere down that path).
Talk to your lawyer about it though...

[tranquility]

There are greater restrictrictions on what private individuals can do wihouth liablity. The remedies are just different.

[CavemanLawyer]

Originally Posted by tranquility

I disagree a search incident to arrest would cover a person's vehicle as he came out of walmart. There can be many subtle facts involved, and the circut is important, but I don't see a search incident unless the person recently left the vehicle. If he left, entered the store, came out and approached his vehicle, not a good search. Overnight, if it is not removed, it might get towed and searched for inventory. Otherwise, I don't think so.

I read it as him being detained once he got to his car.

[tranquility]

Then we go to shopkeeper's reasonable. I know of no shopkeeepers reasosnable to search the car, do you?

[CavemanLawyer]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Then we go to shopkeeper's reasonable. I know of no shopkeeepers reasosnable to search the car, do you?

No, but I wasn't talking about the shopkeeper I was talking about the officer. Unless the Walmart security officer is also a licensed peace officer, his search of the car is not going to be justified on its own. It would only be permissible if he was acting under the direction of the other officer. But in order to go that route the officer's search had to be lawful. So that's why I was running through possible justifications for the officer. If the guy got detained by his vehicle by Walmart security, the officer shows up and arrests him, than they could both together probably search the car incident to the arrest.

[tranquility]

But a search incident required the person to be a recent occupant of the vehicle--which I discussed the factual problems in my previous post. If the guy left the vehicle, entered the store, did something suspicious, came out and got near his car, a search incident would not be appropriate. Proximity is not the key but recent occupancy.

[CavemanLawyer]

Originally Posted by tranquility

But a search incident required the person to be a recent occupant of the vehicle-- Proximity is not the key but recent occupancy.

First let me say that after the guy's second post, it sounds like he wasn't in fact by his car when detained, but rather was taken there later to get his ID, so this discussion is now just academic.

With that said, I do not agree at all with your analysis. Search incident to arrest is a concept of the Sup. Ct. case of Belton. The test is whether the thing searched incident to the arrest is in the immediate control of the arrestee. This is a fact based question and not settled just by proximity of the arrestee to their vehicle, but that is certainly a factor. But if the guy was detained by his vehicle and then arrested by his vehicle, that could absolutely justify a search of his vehicle incident to arrest. Recent occupancy really has nothing to do with that.

Recent occupancy is a concept created in several cases interpreting the application of Belton to situations when the arrestee voluntarily exits the vehicle and then is later arrested. If they are a recent occupant of the vehicle, than it can still be searched incident to the arrest even if they are arrested at a location away from the car.

If a vehicle is in the immediate control of an individual at the time of their arrest, it doesn't matter if they have EVER been an occupant of that vehicle. The justification is based as much on what the arrestee might do in the future after arrest as it is based on what they did in the past. Belton deals alot with officer safety. If the vehicle is in the arrestee's immediate control than you don't know what evidence or weapons might have been stashed there. An officer has an interest in securing all weapons in that area regardless of whether the arrestee is already in handcuffs or not.

[JustaPerson]

I went in to shop.
Stayed at least an hour. Never went back yo my car.
Went directly to police station.
They searched the car before they took me away from the WalMart.
Do you think the police search was unreasonable or illegal?

[Zigner]

Originally Posted by JustaPerson

Do you think the police search was unreasonable or illegal?

Ok, let's get back to reality here...what, if anything, did they find?

[racer72]

My daughter works as a theft prevention manager for about 15 area Walmart stores. She states generally TPS's (theft prevention specialists) are not allowed to search vehicles, even if the perp is apprehended at the vehicle. But if the officer asks the TPS to look in the vehicle to identify anything that may have been taken by the perp, either at that visit or other visits, a general visual search would be acceptable.