caught shoplifting; multiple charges

[apprehended]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

I would like your opinion about whether: a) the situation I describe sounds like a legal arrest for shoplifting; and b) if the other charges sound like they have a legal basis.

I bought some items at a store. As I went through the exit the alarm sounded. No one seemed to be paying any attention so I just left. A uniformed security guard came after me and asked me to stop. We were in the parking lot by then. She asked to check my bag. I agreed. She found a CD in it that hadn’t been paid for. I explained that this must have been a mistake by the checker or that something was wrong with the register and I offered to pay for it. She told me that I would have to come back with her to the security area. I tried to just walk away, leaving her with the CD, but she took me by the arm. As a reflex, without thinking I tried to pull my arm away but she put some kind of control hold on me and I stopped any further resistance as I realized she could easily injure me. She kept this hold on me and walked me back into the store.

In the security office she had a male employee (I am also male) do a pat down search for weapons and then she handcuffed me, hands behind the back, while she did her investigation and report. In the end she told me that she would release me without charges, but she gave me an order that I was banned from the store and that a civil demand would be coming.

The civil demand came a week or so later, for $500. It was paid.

Even though the guard said I wouldn't be charged, recently the police came to the house and gave me a citation to appear in criminal court. I have been charged with petty theft, disorderly conduct for loitering or prowling with criminal intent, and disturbing the peace for fighting.

 

[Antigone*]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

I would like your opinion about whether: a) the situation I describe sounds like a legal arrest for shoplifting; and b) if the other charges sound like they have a legal basis.

I bought some items at a store. As I went through the exit the alarm sounded. No one seemed to be paying any attention so I just left. A uniformed security guard came after me and asked me to stop. We were in the parking lot by then. She asked to check my bag. I agreed. She found a CD in it that hadn’t been paid for. I explained that this must have been a mistake by the checker or that something was wrong with the register and I offered to pay for it. She told me that I would have to come back with her to the security area. I tried to just walk away, leaving her with the CD, but she took me by the arm. As a reflex, without thinking I tried to pull my arm away but she put some kind of control hold on me and I stopped any further resistance as I realized she could easily injure me. She kept this hold on me and walked me back into the store.

In the security office she had a male employee (I am also male) do a pat down search for weapons and then she handcuffed me, hands behind the back, while she did her investigation and report. In the end she told me that she would release me without charges, but she gave me an order that I was banned from the store and that a civil demand would be coming.

The civil demand came a week or so later, for $500. It was paid.

Even though the guard said I wouldn't be charged, recently the police came to the house and gave me a citation to appear in criminal court. I have been charged with petty theft, disorderly conduct for loitering or prowling with criminal intent, and disturbing the peace for fighting.

Sounds legal and valid to me. Get an attorney.

 

[cyjeff]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

I would like your opinion about whether: a) the situation I describe sounds like a legal arrest for shoplifting; and b) if the other charges sound like they have a legal basis.

I bought some items at a store. As I went through the exit the alarm sounded. No one seemed to be paying any attention so I just left. A uniformed security guard came after me and asked me to stop. We were in the parking lot by then. She asked to check my bag. I agreed. She found a CD in it that hadn’t been paid for. I explained that this must have been a mistake by the checker or that something was wrong with the register and I offered to pay for it. She told me that I would have to come back with her to the security area. I tried to just walk away, leaving her with the CD, but she took me by the arm. As a reflex, without thinking I tried to pull my arm away but she put some kind of control hold on me and I stopped any further resistance as I realized she could easily injure me. She kept this hold on me and walked me back into the store.

In the security office she had a male employee (I am also male) do a pat down search for weapons and then she handcuffed me, hands behind the back, while she did her investigation and report. In the end she told me that she would release me without charges, but she gave me an order that I was banned from the store and that a civil demand would be coming.

The civil demand came a week or so later, for $500. It was paid.

Even though the guard said I wouldn't be charged, recently the police came to the house and gave me a citation to appear in criminal court. I have been charged with petty theft, disorderly conduct for loitering or prowling with criminal intent, and disturbing the peace for fighting.

Yup, you took a CD without paying for it. You think you have a really good excuse... or excuses, I counted three... but, regardless, you had something that you didn't pay for.

Yup, they will stand up. You not only signed an admission of guilt (remember that piece of paper you signed to leave the store?) but have already paid the civil demand.

 

[apprehended]

apprehended

Doesn't the guard's statement to me that she was releasing me without charges count for anything? I thought by paying the civil demand I was getting this resolved.

Also, why the extra charges for disorderly conduct and disturbing the peace? It's not like I attacked the guard or anything.

 

[Antigone*]

Doesn't the guard's statement to me that she was releasing me without charges count for anything?

NO

I thought by paying the civil demand I was getting this resolved.

No, two totally separate things

Also, why the extra charges for disorderly conduct and disturbing the peace? It's not like I attacked the guard or anything.

This is why:

As a reflex, without thinking I tried to pull my arm away but she put some kind of control hold on me and I stopped any further resistance as I realized she could easily injure me. She kept this hold on me and walked me back into the store.

 

[apprehended]

Two criminal charges for what amounts to a practically involuntary reflex seems kind of harsh to me. You really think I will get convicted for those charges?

 

[cyjeff]

Two criminal charges for what amounts to a practically involuntary reflex seems kind of harsh to me. You really think I will get convicted for those charges?

We cannot predict the future.

It is, however, possible.

 

[Antigone*]

We cannot predict the future.

It is, however, possible.

At least not since SJ took off with the crystal ball and didn't come back

 

[apprehended]

Well, okay. Thank you for your opinions. I was hoping for different answers but at least I have gotten an independent view that I am at real risk here, which I didn't really have from anyone before. This is all pretty scary. I can understand the shoplifting bust and if that was all there was I wouldn't be too worried because I have heard you can get diversion for that. These other charges are making me feel sick. Looking back on it, I made a wrong decision at every turn - leaving after the alarm sounded, trying to walk away from the guard in the parking lot, and then trying to pull my arm away (involuntary and ineffectual though it was).

By the way, CyJeff, I don't think I technically confessed guilt. You referred to the paper I signed in order to leave the store. I went back and read it. That says that I removed an item from the store without paying for it. It doesn't say I intended to steal it. I still say it was a mistake. Having said that, though, I recognize that no one is going to believe me. Every person I have talked to about it says that saying it was a mistake is a doomed defense. I suppose the walking away part just makes that worse.

 

[CdwJava]

She told me that I would have to come back with her to the security area. I tried to just walk away, leaving her with the CD, but she took me by the arm. As a reflex, without thinking I tried to pull my arm away but she put some kind of control hold on me and I stopped any further resistance as I realized she could easily injure me. She kept this hold on me and walked me back into the store.

You do not have a right to just walk away. You were detained and could have been arrested. To protect themselves from civil liability, the store should have then called the police and made a citizen's arrest. But, that's neither here nor there at the moment.

In the security office she had a male employee (I am also male) do a pat down search for weapons and then she handcuffed me, hands behind the back, while she did her investigation and report. In the end she told me that she would release me without charges, but she gave me an order that I was banned from the store and that a civil demand would be coming.

Pretty common stuff.

The civil demand came a week or so later, for $500. It was paid.

Okay. One worry gone.

Even though the guard said I wouldn't be charged, recently the police came to the house and gave me a citation to appear in criminal court. I have been charged with petty theft, disorderly conduct for loitering or prowling with criminal intent, and disturbing the peace for fighting.

Okay. Now you have to get an attorney and appear in court.

All because the security officer said you were released without charges does not mean that they would not report the incident to the police and the DA would then decide to pursue it.

What likely happened is that upon review of the report, someone higher up at the store decided that the needed to report the matter to the police. As I said, the security guard should have called the police at the time to justify her use of force to detain you. But, it seems reasonable so I doubt anything can come of her use of force and not calling the cops initially.

- Carl

 

[cyjeff]

By the way, CyJeff, I don't think I technically confessed guilt. You referred to the paper I signed in order to leave the store. I went back and read it. That says that I removed an item from the store without paying for it. It doesn't say I intended to steal it.

What you don't seem to understand is that intention doesn't play here.

 

[dave33]

You were not arrested, you were detained. That sounds like a perfectly legal reason for detention.B. You will have to see the report. Sounds like the store employee's statement was reviewed by the d.a. and they decided to go forward with what you were charged with. You will then have to determine if there version of events fits clearly within the statute that you are being charged with. I suspect they charged you so harshly for leverage when it comes time to make a plea deal. Hopefully they will agree to drop 1 or 2 charges in order to get you to plead guilty to the 3rd charge. Hopefully.goodluck.

 

[apprehended]

CyJeff:

I don't claim to be an expert, but I respectfully disagree about the intent part. I have done my best to research this and everything I have read about this talks about proving the shoplifter's intent to steal. For example, if the checker really did make a mistake and didn't scan in the item but put it in my bag and I innocently walked out with it, I don't think any judge would say that is theft by me. So, my intent does matter. As I said, I understand that getting anyone to believe that happened is difficult, maybe impossible, but that is a different question.

Well, I don't want to argue with you. I just asked your opinion and you were kind enough to give it to me. I am going to go see an attorney and I will let you know what he says about the intent part if he sees it differently than you do.

 

[CdwJava]

petty theft, disorderly conduct for loitering or prowling with criminal intent, and disturbing the peace for fighting.

If this is correct,you have been charged with PC 488 (it could also appear as PC 490.5,either with 484 in front of it) ... petty theft. Thus, the value of the items stolen valued less than $400.

And for PC 415(1) for fighting in public. This seems odd ... but, I suppose it still fits.

There are a number of possible loitering offenses, but I doubt that any of them will stick seeing that you apparently bought several items and that sort of defeats the definition of loitering.

You can always seek to plea to an infraction for the shoplifting since the value of the CD is apparently under $50. That would be for PC490.1.

- Carl

 

[apprehended]

Carl -

Yes, I understand that the shoplifting part is petty theft. Thanks for your other comments.