>> Cops <<

[phpnewb08]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

Mississippi.

An hour ago I was stopped by a police officer while walking around the block. They had reports of a white male.

I had a digital MP3 Player on. I was recording notes while I walk.

The cop parked next to me and got out of his car. He asked where I live.

I pointed about 40 feet over to show him I lived just over there.

He asked me my name. I told him.

He then asked me for my social security number. I replied

"I'm not comfortable giving you that. I've never heard of a police officer asking for a social number"

He replied "Well I can take you to jail right now and we can get it there and anything else I need from you"

I replied, very respectfully, very calmy, all recorded live as it happened:

"I can go get my ID for you to identify that way"

I did not refuse to identity myself.

I offered the police officer my ID/License very respectfully because I was uncomfortable providing a social security number.

We got to my house, and he began to speak to me very disrespectfully and macho.

My MP3 player was still recording everything.

He claimed I refused to provide identification.

I tried to reply that I did not but he interrupted me and told me I am "Pissing him off"

Every opportunity I had to speak he interrupted me with threats of taking me to jail.

This fabricated story he made of me refusing to provide identification was false with live digital audio recording to prove it. I did not refuse and I am the one who offered to go to my house to provide my ID for him - not him.

Because of what just happen, I am seeking information on my rights as a civilian. Links, websites, any information to prevent this from happening again and how to handle it.

I did not commit a crime. I cooperated respectfully and calmly. I did not refuse or resist anything he requested.

However, I did stand my ground in a professional way. I did not allow him to belittle me. I spoke up (Tried to) when he made false claims and then quickly shut my mouth when he began to threaten jail.

I want to prevent this in the future.

If anyone has information on civilian rights when confronted with a police officer please give me the links. I need to know my rights and what I am capable of saying and not saying.

I am regretting now just telling him: "I have this recorded from start to finish. Lets get in the car and put this all in paper to prove you're making false claims"

I need to know if I have the American right to respectfully and calmly disagree with an officer if he is making a false claim. If I do it to him right then and there, he was likely to get the cuffs out and throw me in the car.

How do I handle officers like this?

Links and information please.

Websites and stuff.

Thanks.

[CavemanLawyer]

Well honestly, I think you may be the one in the wrong initially. Officers generally have the right to request identification information which would include a social security number, and they are authorized to request multiple types of identification information to verify that one form is not fictitious. Even if you had given him your DL then and there, I do not believe that the officer is out of line at all in asking for you to also give your social. Most states do make it a minor offense to intentionally fail to provide that information to a police officer upon request IF they have a valid reason to ask. If you fit the description of a suspect they were looking for, I think that would qualify. Fail to ID doesn't mean failure to identify who you are, it means failure to provide identification information to an officer when it is lawfully requested. So just because you gave your true name doesn't mean you can't still fail to ID.

Now if the officer's conduct became unreasonable or unlawful after this initial exchange than you can file a complaint with the police department and give them a copy of the audio as evidence. Some cities have civilian review boards as well where you can file the complaint. Finally, if you don't think people are paying enough attention than you could always give that audio to the media, but honestly I don't think they'd be very interested.

[phpnewb08]

Originally Posted by CavemanLawyer

Well honestly, I think you may be the one in the wrong initially. Officers generally have the right to request identification information which would include a social security number, and they are authorized to request multiple types of identification information to verify that one form is not fictitious. Even if you had given him your DL then and there, I do not believe that the officer is out of line at all in asking for you to also give your social. Most states do make it a minor offense to intentionally fail to provide that information to a police officer upon request IF they have a valid reason to ask. If you fit the description of a suspect they were looking for, I think that would qualify. Fail to ID doesn't mean failure to identify who you are, it means failure to provide identification information to an officer when it is lawfully requested. So just because you gave your true name doesn't mean you can't still fail to ID.

Now if the officer's conduct became unreasonable or unlawful after this initial exchange than you can file a complaint with the police department and give them a copy of the audio as evidence. Some cities have civilian review boards as well where you can file the complaint. Finally, if you don't think people are paying enough attention than you could always give that audio to the media, but honestly I don't think they'd be very interested.

I didn't fail to provide identification.

I offered to provide my License because I was uncomfortable to provide my social.

I did not refuse, I offered alternative means of identification to protect my identity.

In other words, I said:

"I'm not comfortable providing my social security, but I can provide my ID card instead"

Very calmly without resist or any type of refusal.

Links please. Thanks.

[JETX]

No links needed.

File a complaint with officers supervisor ('Internal Affairs' or 'Officer Integrity'). Keep that tape. Give them a copy if they request it.
If what you describe is at all accurate, that officer needs to be removed from his position of authority.

[CdwJava]

A "link" proves nothing. I can find a "link" that offers alleged proof of Martians visiting Earth.

You are not charged with a crime, this is a personnel issue. Your only real recourse is to contact the officer's agency and speak to someone over there.

In general, you will not be required to provide a social security number unless you are booked. However, a name and a birthdate might match someone else in their system, and one way to make sure you are (or are NOT) the person listed as wanted, on probation, or on parole.

It's not his asking for your social security number that is unlawful or even improper, it is whether or not he could act on your failure to provide it. If he arrested you for failure to provide your SSN, you MIGHT have a case if he had no good reason to ask for that, specifically, and the law otherwise would require your compliance.

Good cause is generally something that must be articulated and is based upon the circumstances and impressions of the "reasonable officer" standard ... we can only speculate as to whether he had cause or not. An officer can ask most any question he wants, but what he can NOT do is take unlawful action. In this case, you were not arrested or charged with a crime for failing to produce it, so no foul.

You might very well have a valid issue to raise with his superiors, however. Perhaps there is a training issue, and the officers of that agency somehow believe that they CAN compel you to reveal your SSN when, in fact, you do not have to.


- Carl

[CavemanLawyer]

Originally Posted by phpnewb08

I didn't fail to provide identification.

I offered to provide my License because I was uncomfortable to provide my social.

I did not refuse, I offered alternative means of identification to protect my identity.

In other words, I said:

"I'm not comfortable providing my social security, but I can provide my ID card instead"

Very calmly without resist or any type of refusal.

Links please. Thanks.

I don't think you really read my response. Fail to ID does not mean you fail to identify who you are, it means you fail to provide a specific piece of identification information that a police officer lawfully asks for.

So again it doesn't matter if you offer an alternative means of identification or even a better one. If an officer asks for your social, in most states you have to give it to him/her even if you've already provided your name, date of birth, driver's license, birth certificate, or anything else, as long as the officer has a valid reason to further want your social, and of course has a valid reason to want to determine your identification in the first place.