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Counterfeit $50 bill

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ovechkin

Junior Member
The following occurred in New Jersey. An immediate family member of mine had driven to a gas station to fill up and paid the attendant with a $50 bill. After five minutes or so, the attendant had not come back out to give him his change. Instead, a police cruise pulls up, lets my relative know that there is reason to believe he has passed fake money, and proceeds to arrest and book him.

My question is two-fold: (1) Does the attendant have to check the bill for legitimacy in front of my relative, where he can see the check being performed? For all we know, the employee went inside and switched the bill with a bill he knew to be fake. Why, you ask? Gas stations around here are frequently getting in trouble for selling alcohol to minors, and we suspect that this was some sort of play to suck up to the police. Nevermind the fact that the attendant could have simply denied the cash and asked for another form of payment. At any rate, I suppose that's not something we can prove, unless the surveillance tapes of the store are checked, but even then, I doubt they would be stupid enough to swap the bills on camera. (2) Obviously, my relative had no idea that he was carrying a fake bill. He's a college student on the Dean's List and is in no way dumb enough to engage in that sort of behavior. Even if you have your doubts, let's go under the assumption that he didn't know. It's not like he's printing out 50s in the cellar - so what gives? What kind of a defense does he have? He's not even sure where the bill came from, so he has no idea what to tell the judge when he returns for his court date.

This sort of thing is just another example of the justice system attacking the symptoms and not the problems. It's common sense that this kid had no idea he was passing along funny money, and yet there seems to be no push to go after the wastes of life who are sitting around printing this stuff - the police and the courts are happy enough busting kids who unwittingly pass it on. On the record, they've done their job and they're fighting counterfeiting. In reality, it's a lazy approach and it ignores the real issues. I guess that's what happens when you overpay suburban cops with no real crime to fight - they're forced to do things like this so that they can fill out their report and justify the fat paychecks (read: OT) they take home.

Back to the point. What can my relative do? Thanks in advance for any help.
 


The Occultist

Senior Member
(1) Does the attendant have to check the bill for legitimacy in front of my relative, where he can see the check being performed?
Every job I've ever held that included the need to inspect bills to ensure no counterfieting was occurring, we were trained to NOT inspect the bill in front of the customer; if that was not an option, such as working the box office of a movie theatre, the inspection was to be made as discreetly as possible.

(2) Obviously, my relative had no idea that he was carrying a fake bill.
Obviously? Why is it so obvious? Maybe he not only knew he had such a bill, but also had full intent of trying to pass it off as a real one.

He's a college student on the Dean's List and is in no way dumb enough to engage in that sort of behavior.
My experience is that one's level of education, or level of "superiority" within such an educational infrastracture, has no bearing on whether or not one would commit a crime.

Even if you have your doubts, let's go under the assumption that he didn't know. It's not like he's printing out 50s in the cellar - so what gives?
You do not need to be the one printing a bad bill to be guilty of trying to pass a bad bill.

It's common sense that this kid had no idea he was passing along funny money
Um...why is it common sense? Perhaps you are biased seeing as how the suspect happens to be a family member; have you considered the possibility that he has been counterfeiting bills for awhile now?

I guess that's what happens when you overpay suburban cops with no real crime to fight - they're forced to do things like this so that they can fill out their report and justify the fat paychecks (read: OT) they take home.
I am not personally friends with any officers, nor do such exist in my family, so I hope you can appreciate the full honesty in my statement: I don't believe there is any such thing as an officer that is overpaid. For you to suggest such, knowing how much they risk their lives on an everyday basis, offends me.

Back to the point. What can my relative do? Thanks in advance for any help.
If your "relative" has been charged with a crime, please post the relevant statute(s) that he is being charged with so that they may be properly addressed.
 

Some Random Guy

Senior Member
I guess that's what happens when you overpay suburban cops with no real crime to fight - they're forced to do things like this so that they can fill out their report and justify the fat paychecks (read: OT) they take home.
Uh, no. Counterfeiting money is a serious crime with the serious possibility of jail time. Your relative needs a lawyer.
 

ovechkin

Junior Member
Opinions about cops aside - no, he has not been counterfeiting for awhile. He did not know the money was fake. I just don't understand what one is supposed to do in this situation. You can't prove you "didn't know," so if a lawyer were hired, what would he/she try to tell the judge/jury in your defense?

I apologize if I have offended you, but when you say that there's no such thing as an overpaid cop, it makes me shake my head. Organized labor has no place in a free market economy. But that is another issue for another board. Thanks for your help. :)
 

Andy0192

Member
Organized labor has no place in a free market economy
I'm not a big fan of Unions, but if you want to have a free market, you shouldn't restrict people's rights to organize. Let the market decide.

On to your topic. If a gas station attendant spots a fake, you can be sure it was a fairly obvious counterfeit. Not exactly a high quality super bill.

If your family member had a fake bill in his possession, he either printed it, or received it. By having the police arrest him & talk to him, the police can determine if your family member was involved in the counterfeit operation, or was an unknowing shill. A $50 bill isn't normally given out as change, so there's a good chance they could track where your family member received the money.

Has your family member been charged with anything?

An immediate family member of mine had driven to a gas station to fill up and paid the attendant with a $50 bill. After five minutes or so, the attendant had not come back out to give him his change. Instead, a police cruise pulls up, lets my relative know that there is reason to believe he has passed fake money, and proceeds to arrest and book him.
The part that strikes me as odd, is that I'm picturing someone who has finished filling up their tank, paying the attendant $50, and then passively waiting for 5 minutes to get their change. After more than 1 minute, I'm going to go looking for my money, or find a manager.
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
I'm not a big fan of Unions, but if you want to have a free market, you shouldn't restrict people's rights to organize. Let the market decide.
Correct, but on the other hand you shouldn't mandate union participation either.
On to your topic. If a gas station attendant spots a fake, you can be sure it was a fairly obvious counterfeit. Not exactly a high quality super bill.
Well depends on how they spotted it. Even on twenties I've had clerks from the local grocery store on up hit it with one of those "counterfeit detector" pens. Of course, I guess that would make it obvious.
 

outonbail

Senior Member
He's not even sure where the bill came from, so he has no idea what to tell the judge when he returns for his court date.
I could almost believe your story, until I read the line above.

I may not know where my one's or five's or even twenty's come from, but a fifty?
I rarely have 50 dollar bills given to me in change when I break a hundred, so I can't believe that this college kid doesn't remember where the bill came from.
Have you checked his cellar?

I suppose he could always tell the judge that he lost a tooth and put it under his pillow when he went to bed the night before
 

Mass_Shyster

Senior Member
yet there seems to be no push to go after the wastes of life who are sitting around printing this stuff - the police and the courts are happy enough busting kids who unwittingly pass it on.
How can they go after the people who are printing this stuff, when your relative claims he doesn't know where he got it?

As far as proving that he didn't know it was fake: If knowledge is an element of the crime, the burden of proof is on the prosecution.

If mere possession is the only element, knowledge doesn't matter.
 

FlyingRon

Senior Member
18 USC 472 is the one that most likely applies federally

Whoever, with intent to defraud, passes, utters, publishes, or
sells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or with like
intent brings into the United States or keeps in possession or
conceals any falsely made, forged, counterfeited, or altered
obligation or other security of the United States, shall be fined
under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

Since the local police arrested him, it's quite possbile that there's some state violation.

Without knowing what he's charged with we don't know, but this is serious. He needs a lawyer.
 

ovechkin

Junior Member
I could almost believe your story, until I read the line above.
The reason he does not know where the bill came from is exactly what you're saying. He doesn't carry around 50s. He puts them in the bank or, in this case, had it stashed away in his bedroom or something like that. He took it with him to pay for gas because he does not have a credit card of his own. The only 50s he remembers getting were from shoveling snow. Let's stay away from the whole idea of him hiding something. He is an immediate family member and lives in my house. I KNOW he does not produce counterfeit money. I KNOW he has never been involved in anything like this. He's just scared sh*tless because he'll be out of college in a year and looking for a job, and something like this does not bode well on background checks.

As I said, he's worked his *ss off throughout school, and this is really just a shame.

In response to whoever questioned him waiting in the car for 5 minutes ... why is that so incriminating? When he told me the story, right off the bat he told me that he had no idea what was going on inside the store, and he was probably a minute or two away from going in to check on what was happening. It's not like he sensed that his money-printing scheme had been made and sped out of the parking lot. I have 100% confidence in the fact that he was clueless.

Not that this can be proven, but imagine this scenario ... The gas station worker is counting his drawer at the end of his shift. He goes through the bigger bills and checks for fakes with a pen. Spots one. Doesn't know what to do since this obviously cannot be given to the bank. Doesn't want to be short fifty bucks. Waits for someone like my family member (a young male) to pull up and hand over a legit fifty. Swaps it with the fake and calls it in. Quite conceivable to me - especially if he's not the owner of the store and doesn't want to get fired for not having checked the original 50, which was fake. Nothing we can do about this, I suppose, but I'm just putting it out there.
 

HuAi

Member
on twenties I've had clerks from the local grocery store on up hit it with one of those "counterfeit detector" pens. Of course, I guess that would make it obvious.

Iodine in counterfeit detector pens reacts with starch present wood fibers used in regular printer grade paper. Since money is printed on cotton fiber based paper, iodine in the pen does not react. Fiber based paper is readily available for purchase at a slight premium from office supplies stores. These pen detectors only catch the worst and laziest counterfits.
 

The Occultist

Senior Member
Iodine in counterfeit detector pens reacts with starch present wood fibers used in regular printer grade paper. Since money is printed on cotton fiber based paper, iodine in the pen does not react. Fiber based paper is readily available for purchase at a slight premium from office supplies stores. These pen detectors only catch the worst and laziest counterfits.
Agreed. Good counterfieters are also able to simply bleach and re-dye actual currency and make it look like it's a larger denomination than it truly is.
 

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