Disorderly Conduct

[hmar10]

What is the name of your state? Illinois

My fiance (Mike) bowls at a local bowling alley in which he works at. One night during his bowling league, one of the workers (john) said something derogatory about Mike's sister. Jphn had been harassing her for quite some time and Mike said something to him about it. One of John's friends (dave) thought my fiance punched his friend and got in Mike's face and started screaming and threatening my fiance. We separated the two and Mike went to go bowl his turn.

After Mike's turn he noticed that Dave was staring him down and walked in the opposite direction to avoid Dave. Dave then decided that he was going to follow Mike. Dave got in Mike's face and was yelling and taunting Mike by "chest bumping" him. SO....Mike punched him in the mouth. That was the only punch thrown before we separated them. BUT while everyone was running after Dave, because they saw him antagonizing Mike, someone was hurt and broke their ankle.

The establishment had to call the police & paramedics because of protocol when someone is hurt. The police handcuffed Mike because he was pissed of and made the mistake of having a smart mouth to the police officer. (For which he apologized to the office later for & the officer understood the adrenaline rush he was having at the time) BUT they issued him a ticket and Court Date for Disorderly Conduct.

The court date is on Halloween @ 7pm. The ticket states that it is a Local ordinance.

The question is should he plead guilty and pay any fines associated to get it over with, or should he plead not guilty because of self defense? If he pleads guilty will it go on his record? If the officer doesn't show up will it be dropped? (I'm just wondering because court is on Halloween and I know the officer has children). Thanks in any advice!!! Sorry for the long post.

[Shay-Pari'e]

Originally Posted by hmar10

What is the name of your state? Illinois

My fiance (Mike) bowls at a local bowling alley in which he works at. One night during his bowling league, one of the workers (john) said something derogatory about Mike's sister. Jphn had been harassing her for quite some time and Mike said something to him about it. One of John's friends (dave) thought my fiance punched his friend and got in Mike's face and started screaming and threatening my fiance. We separated the two and Mike went to go bowl his turn.

After Mike's turn he noticed that Dave was staring him down and walked in the opposite direction to avoid Dave. Dave then decided that he was going to follow Mike. Dave got in Mike's face and was yelling and taunting Mike by "chest bumping" him. SO....Mike punched him in the mouth. That was the only punch thrown before we separated them. BUT while everyone was running after Dave, because they saw him antagonizing Mike, someone was hurt and broke their ankle.

The establishment had to call the police & paramedics because of protocol when someone is hurt. The police handcuffed Mike because he was pissed of and made the mistake of having a smart mouth to the police officer. (For which he apologized to the office later for & the officer understood the adrenaline rush he was having at the time) BUT they issued him a ticket and Court Date for Disorderly Conduct.

The court date is on Halloween @ 7pm. The ticket states that it is a Local ordinance.

The question is should he plead guilty and pay any fines associated to get it over with, or should he plead not guilty because of self defense? If he pleads guilty will it go on his record? If the officer doesn't show up will it be dropped? (I'm just wondering because court is on Halloween and I know the officer has children). Thanks in any advice!!! Sorry for the long post.

Court date is at 7 pm ?

[You Are Guilty]

Originally Posted by hmar10

The question is should he plead guilty and pay any fines associated to get it over with, or should he plead not guilty because of self defense?

That's a choice only he can make, however, I can say with a fair amount of certainty that the events you describe would not constitute self-defense in any state in the US. So maybe that will help him decide,

Originally Posted by hmar10

If he pleads guilty will it go on his record?

What record? If you mean his criminal record, then yes, a guilty plea will. (Odds are even the arrest is already on there).

Originally Posted by hmar10

If the officer doesn't show up will it be dropped? (I'm just wondering because court is on Halloween and I know the officer has children).

Very unlikely. If the officer doesn't show, you can request the case be dismissed, but for its first time on, on a 'holiday', chances are the judge will just adjourn the case to another day/time. Double check the time of the court date - odd that one would get sent to 'night court' so far in advance.

[hmar10]

[/quote]That's a choice only he can make, however, I can say with a fair amount of certainty that the events you describe would not constitute self-defense in any state in the US. So maybe that will help him decide,

What record? If you mean his criminal record, then yes, a guilty plea will. (Odds are even the arrest is already on there).

Very unlikely. If the officer doesn't show, you can request the case be dismissed, but for its first time on, on a 'holiday', chances are the judge will just adjourn the case to another day/time. Double check the time of the court date - odd that one would get sent to 'night court' so far in advance.[/quote]

So by walking away from someone to avoid another confrontation, and the other person following him to start a confrontation, getting in his face and screaming at him and chest bumping him and not leaving my fiance alone while having him backed against the wall my fiances only option was to punch this guy to get him to leave him alone and that can't be considered self defense?

He was never arrested. He was taken outside in handcuffs because he smarted off to the cop. For which he apologized for right after he was taken outside. They took him out of the handcuffs & wrote him a ticket on premises and let him go.

I can understand if the officer doesn't show that they would reschedule the court date, especially since it's on Halloween. But seriously who schedules court for Halloween at night?? Do they do this hoping people will forget about it and then end up pleading guilty by not showing up and then being fined more?

[You Are Guilty]

Originally Posted by hmar10

So by walking away from someone to avoid another confrontation, and the other person following him to start a confrontation, getting in his face and screaming at him and chest bumping him and not leaving my fiance alone while having him backed against the wall my fiances only option was to punch this guy to get him to leave him alone and that can't be considered self defense?

Probably not. One has a duty to 1) retreat, and 2) after retreating/if no further retreat is possible, responding only with similar forced that is being used. In other words, if someone 'chest bumps' you can 'chest bump' them back or push them away (similar force). You cannot punch them in the face, stab them, shoot them in the kneecap (excessive force).

To be perfectly clear, you "can" escalate the force level, but then you are no longer committing self-defense, you are committing an assault and/or battery. You can read more on it here: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defense_%28United_States%29[/url]

Originally Posted by hmar10

He was never arrested. He was taken outside in handcuffs because he smarted off to the cop. For which he apologized for right after he was taken outside. They took him out of the handcuffs & wrote him a ticket on premises and let him go.

One of the (many) definitions of "arrest" is "took him out in handcuffs & wrote him a ticket".

Originally Posted by hmar10

I can understand if the officer doesn't show that they would reschedule the court date, especially since it's on Halloween. But seriously who schedules court for Halloween at night?? Do they do this hoping people will forget about it and then end up pleading guilty by not showing up and then being fined more?

No clue, I didn't do it Halloween isn't a "real" holiday, which might explain it, but even ignoring the date, the time is still odd, which is why the suggestion was made to double check it.

[BL]

He was never arrested. He was taken outside in handcuffs because he smarted off to the cop. For which he apologized for right after he was taken outside. They took him out of the handcuffs & wrote him a ticket on premises and let him go

.

This sounds like where the DC come from .

He most likely would get a CD or UD .

As far as the punch goes , it was illegal . Other people were there and all they had to do is call the law , if he told them to .

[hmar10]

Thanks for the help... I know it does seem like an odd time but that's the way some of the smaller towns around here do these things. They don't have to money or space for a courthouse so they use whatever building is available and then book a time. I can only hope to get there early and we can get out of there reasonably early.
I was just wondering because like I said on the ticket it says that it is a local ordinance.

There's more to this but I don't really know if it's relavent. The other guy has warrants for his arrest but the 2 counties they are from wouldn't come pick him up so they let him go. This guy also has been indirectly threatening my fiance. But no one tells us until after the other guy has left. This Dave guy keeps going around and saying he's going to go to his car and get his gun and take care of the situation. The original incident happened 9/7/07. We've told him it's over but he's still mad he had a busted lip for two weeks. My fiance doesn't want anything else to happen but this guy keeps talking **** to our friends.

I keep telling our friends to tell me when this guy says stuff like this to them so that we can call the police and have a report filed about it and then eventually hit this guy with harassment charges. But they wait until a week later to say something about it.

I guess he'll just go to court and plead guilty and pay his fine to get it over with. I really wish there was someway to get this dropped. But unfortunatly it doesn't seem there's a way without hiring an attorney that we don't have money to pay for.

[hmar10]

Originally Posted by Blonde Lebinese

.

This sounds like where the DC come from .

He most likely would get a CD or UD .

As far as the punch goes , it was illegal . Other people were there and all they had to do is call the law , if he told them to .

Sorry whats a CD or UD??

[BL]

Originally Posted by hmar10

Sorry whats a CD or UD??

conditional discharge or unconditional discharge .

[hmar10]

Originally Posted by Blonde Lebinese

conditional discharge or unconditional discharge .

Thanks for the definition!

[outonbail]

Originally Posted by hmar10

I guess he'll just go to court and plead guilty and pay his fine to get it over with. I really wish there was someway to get this dropped. But unfortunately it doesn't seem there's a way without hiring an attorney that we don't have money to pay for.

I don't know if pleading guilty is the best way to handle the situation. If this guy decides to sue your fiancé in civil court for the damages, like any medical bills and/or pain and suffering, it is almost a sure win for him if your fiancé pleads guilty to the criminal charges and they relate to his injuries.
This can also depend on what the officers wrote in their report of the incident.
But if he pleads guilty and the police report states that his disorderly conduct included assaulting someone, well that could make it difficult to prevail in a civil court.

Just something to consider,,,,,

[CJane]

Well, he IS guilty of disorderly conduct... so while he's welcome to plead not-guilty you could add dishonest to what is becoming a rather long list of character flaws...