Got a ticket for drinking in public for no reason

[justalayman]

ardav;3301328]Nothing a cop says would surprise me, I was never told the probable cause, I kept asking for what crime/ suspicion I was being detained and not free to go. No one gave a clear answer.

You are not required to be informed of a crime you are being charged with until arraigned so no big deal here

Neither RSO nor the cops see a filled cup in my hand.

then go and defend yourself with: I was holding an empty cup. It was empty when I walked from the private property.
then figure out what you are going to say when the witness says he saw you dump the contents on the ground.

I am not acting drunk, no one accused me of being "drunk"

nobody said you were

or smelling alcohol

but if you were drinking, you did smell of alcohol.

I had literally at most 1 finger (sorry for keep using that term) of coke in the cup, come on now, how can I keep it, store it and get it tested?

moot point now

Here are more details about the drinking of that night. I have had 2-3 Tecate lights at home between 6-8 then I have been at some other friends house from 8:30 to 11 where I drink one cup of beer from a keg and 2 vodka cranberries, and we arrived to that final place by midnight where I had 1 large redbull with little vodka in a cup . And kept drinking and refilling it with coke couple times till 1AM (cups are precious in those parties you know ). By the time I was outside it contained no alcohol.

yet you felt the need to dump it on the ground. Good luck with that story.

I might agree with the RSO, if you see a guy holding a cup outside a party and tosses it, chances are it is alcohol, but in this case it is not, that's also why I acted the way I acted. I am sitting by myself at the end of the night, not in a party mode anymore, not acting drunk, and this all escalated because I tried to exercise my right.

it escalated because you were dumb.

I am wondering what their claims are going to be for "drinking in public". Because there is no drinking activity let alone drinking alcohol

.I guess you get to find out if you wish to argue the citation.

 

[ardav]

I have had exactly three non-intentional "interactions" with police and various similar entities (including Eastern Bloc countries) in my 45+ years of life. You, at 26 years of age, sound like you have a LOT of growing up to do. Good luck to you.

Why is everyone picking up the smallest unimportant piece of word and make a character analysis of me
Sir, that includes ALL i mean ALL official entities in the world not limited to cops. I don't have more than 3-4 "interactions" with cops (all being traffic but the last one), I mean handling dorm RA's, landlords when you make noise , shop managers when you try to return an item after 30 days, flight attendants when you have 3 pieces of checked bags when you are allowed to two. The point is you can bend the rules when it is in your favor to do so.

The point is in a normal situation why do I have to prove my innocence for any accusation that is thrown at me without any solid ground? Shouldn't it be other way? Shouldn't they find proof that backs their story?

Can you tell me what proof cop has to show in court for "drinking in public"? (that is what I am charged with nothing else). No one saw me put any liquid in my mouth, I didn't act aggressive, drunk or disrespectful. No one accused me of being drunk based on how I smell or look or act. Only thing the cop said that is relevant is " you are talking over me, that is drunk", WHAT?, Even then I immediately stopped talking and said "Listening officer". All this happened because I thought I had a right to keep my ID to myself unless there are extreme situations (driving, committing a crime)

This is how I envision their side, RSO sees me spill some liquid in the ground in front of a party on a dry-campus(!). Tells this to cops. Cops came and ask me questions (which I am not obligated to answer), I didn't wish to present my ID because they couldn't give me any probable cause. At that point drink/cup etc wasn't even the subject. They didn't confiscate it or smell it. I dropped it on the ground when they cuffed me and it was still lying there when they released me. I doubt if they came back and took for chemical analysis.

What is the worst case here? $100-$150 fine?

 

[justalayman]

The point is in a normal situation why do I have to prove my innocence for any accusation that is thrown at me without any solid ground? Shouldn't it be other way? Shouldn't they find proof that backs their story?

You get to prove your innocence in the court. The cops believed there was probable cause to charge you so you are where you are.

No one saw me put any liquid in my mouth

,I guess you will have to wait until a trial, if you so choose to argue the point, to see if anybody claims to have seen you.

I didn't act aggressive, drunk or disrespectful.

irrelevant to the charge

No one accused me of being drunk based on how I smell or look or act.

irrelevant to the charge. You weren't charged with drunk in public. You were charged with drinking in public.

 

[ardav]

yet you felt the need to dump it on the ground. Good luck with that story.

\
It was the flat warm remains of a coke, as soon as I realized how I look drinking anything in front of a party I decided to stop looking like that either by drinking or tossing it, next step would be to throw away the cup in trash. But it doesn't even matter at that point, the RSO already had 100% confidence that it was alcohol when he saw me. It wouldn't matter if I had drunk it then he would say "you panicked and chugged it" and since you smell alcohol everything you drink must be alcoholic, if I kept it he would claim he was smelling alcohol because the cup was used for alcohol earlier.

Trust me I could have handled this definitely without getting handcuffed if it was really alcohol.

 

[justalayman]

your story makes no sense. You were seen with the cup. For some stupid reason you thought dumping it (and realize this is after you realized the RSO was heading for you so arguing he didn't see it doesn't make much sense) would be some defense to a claim of drinking in public. You get to argue that if you want. It is your choice. Who knows, maybe you will run across a sympathetic judge and there is no other evidence against you and you will win.

I suspect it won't be a winning argument though.

 

[Just Blue]

Why is everyone picking up the smallest unimportant piece of word and make a character analysis of me
Sir, that includes ALL i mean ALL official entities in the world not limited to cops. I don't have more than 3-4 "interactions" with cops (all being traffic but the last one), I mean handling dorm RA's, landlords when you make noise , shop managers when you try to return an item after 30 days, flight attendants when you have 3 pieces of checked bags when you are allowed to two. The point is you can bend the rules when it is in your favor to do so.

The point is in a normal situation why do I have to prove my innocence for any accusation that is thrown at me without any solid ground? Shouldn't it be other way? Shouldn't they find proof that backs their story?

Can you tell me what proof cop has to show in court for "drinking in public"? (that is what I am charged with nothing else). No one saw me put any liquid in my mouth, I didn't act aggressive, drunk or disrespectful. No one accused me of being drunk based on how I smell or look or act. Only thing the cop said that is relevant is " you are talking over me, that is drunk", WHAT?, Even then I immediately stopped talking and said "Listening officer". All this happened because I thought I had a right to keep my ID to myself unless there are extreme situations (driving, committing a crime)

This is how I envision their side, RSO sees me spill some liquid in the ground in front of a party on a dry-campus(!). Tells this to cops. Cops came and ask me questions (which I am not obligated to answer), I didn't wish to present my ID because they couldn't give me any probable cause. At that point drink/cup etc wasn't even the subject. They didn't confiscate it or smell it. I dropped it on the ground when they cuffed me and it was still lying there when they released me. I doubt if they came back and took for chemical analysis.

What is the worst case here? $100-$150 fine?

Ask your attorney. One thing I have learned on this site is you can not advise stupid.;(

 

[ardav]

Firstly thanks for your time analyzing this, this also helps me take notes while the memory is still fresh.

You were seen with the cup.

Correct, seen with it an seen spilling the remaining.

For some stupid reason you thought dumping it ... would be some defense to a claim of drinking in public.

I wasn't drinking alcohol so I wasn't worried about that, I drank most of the coke while getting out of the apartment and before I sat down and wait for my friends. I was holding on to cup that had last 1-2 sips remaining which I didn't want to drink but I couldn't find a place to toss the cup. Holding onto it was stupid and I realized how it looks under those circumstances.

(and realize this is after you realized the RSO was heading for you so arguing he didn't see it doesn't make much sense)

Of course seeing him heading me made me realize I am already in trouble from his point of view. (there is not a good alternative to what I do with the drink and the cup after he already sees me with it).I said he didn't see me drink. He did see me spill it and that's what made him believe it was alcohol (and being in front of a party in halloween) .

You get to argue that if you want. It is your choice. Who knows, maybe you will run across a sympathetic judge and there is no other evidence against you and you will win.

What evidence is there to begin with?

I suspect it won't be a winning argument though

What happens if I lose?

 

[ardav]

Ask your attorney. One thing I have learned on this site is you can not advise stupid.;(

As much as I like talking to you (because we have similar personalities, i would have reacted the way you do now towards someone in a situation like me) you are not really contributing to the main issue. I can see that you are a smart and experienced person. Of course asking an attorney is a viable solution to every single problem on this website. But I wouldn't spend time here if I went to an attorney in the first place now would I? If you can kindly provide an average attorney fee for a case like this vs the fine I would face if I plea guilty, I'd really appreciate it.

 

[ardav]

Also see this interesting article (in NY ) http://gothamist.com/2012/08/09/behold_the_brand_loophole_that_stym.php

 

[justalayman]

Firstly thanks for your time analyzing this, this also helps me take notes while the memory is still fresh.

Correct, seen with it an seen spilling the remaining.

I wasn't drinking alcohol so I wasn't worried about that, I drank most of the coke while getting out of the apartment and before I sat down and wait for my friends. I was holding on to cup that had last 1-2 sips remaining which I didn't want to drink but I couldn't find a place to toss the cup. Holding onto it was stupid and I realized how it looks under those circumstances.


Of course seeing him heading me made me realize I am already in trouble from his point of view. (there is not a good alternative to what I do with the drink and the cup after he already sees me with it).I said he didn't see me drink. He did see me spill it and that's what made him believe it was alcohol (and being in front of a party in halloween) .



What evidence is there to begin with?



What happens if I lose?

so your argument is nobody saw you drink anything from the cup. I suspect the statute allows for the possession of alcohol in a drinking container and the fact you had obviously consumed alcohol already to be adequate to charge you.

it's like standing next to a dead animal that is dead due to a gunshot and you having a gun in your hand going; but nobody saw me shoot the thing.

but how do you know he didn't see yuo drink? Maybe be was watching you your entire time outside without you realizing it.

evidence; you with a cup of fluid. A cup that smelled of alcohol. You smelling of alcohol. the witness saying they saw you with the cup with liquid in it, maybe even you actually drinking from it.

what happens if you lose; you will be subjected to penalties.

 

[ardav]

so your argument is nobody saw you drink anything from the cup.

but how do you know he didn't see yuo drink? Maybe be was watching you your entire time outside without you realizing it.

I was sitting there and just looking around, it is large linear walkway (imagine it like a narrow street), I see the RSO walking to the party area from one end when he was about 50-60 feet away. And for fact I know I wasn't drinking anymore when I sat down. And the cup didn't contain alcohol

I suspect the statute allows for the possession of alcohol in a drinking container and the fact you had obviously consumed alcohol already to be adequate to charge you.

Again I did consume alcohol but not in public, and I was holding the remains of a non alcoholic beverage in a container I used earlier to drink alcohol .(basically a trash at that point)

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=bpc&group=22001-23000&file=23000-23047

23004. "Alcoholic beverage" includes alcohol, spirits, liquor,
wine, beer, and every liquid or solid containing alcohol, spirits,
wine, or beer, and which contains one-half of 1 percent or more of
alcohol by volume and which is fit for beverage purposes either alone
or when diluted, mixed, or combined with other substances.

Can he prove what I was drinking? (If he can it would be coke anyways), All he has is he saw me spilling something on the ground when we see each other, I have been saying it was the warm flat remains of the coke I have been drinking and couldn't toss away in a trashcan.
The cup might have alcohol smell, can he prove the beverage in it was above 0.5%, Even if he can, drinking coke from a cup that had a very small amount of already diluted "alcoholic beverage" probably won't exceed .5%.

it's like standing next to a dead animal that is dead due to a gunshot and you having a gun in your hand going; but nobody saw me shoot the thing.

Good analogy but in this case they can use ballistic analysis and match that bullet in the animal was shot from my gun, can they recover the spilled coke and analyze it? And it is not getting rid of incriminating evidence from my point of view when I spilled it, because it isn't against law to drink coke.

evidence; you with a cup of fluid.

me with an empty cup and him seeing me dumping small amount of something he doesn't know but thinks alcohol from 40 feet afar.

A cup that smelled of alcohol.

Smell is not sufficient to classify it as an alcoholic beverage (see above criteria), nor that anyone smelled it or attempted to smell it or made any comments about the cups smell

You smelling of alcohol.

I can smell like a vino if I want. I am not charged with "smelling in public",

the witness saying they saw you with the cup with liquid in it maybe even you actually drinking from it.

,
Unlikely 1)what witness? it is only between RSO and me 2) There is maybe 10 seconds between me leaving the house and sitting on the outside. I might have taken final sips while walking, I sat down for couple minutes, if I had kept drinking it, it would have been gone, even then the liquid is coke as I said a billion times already.

 

[justalayman]

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=bpc&group=22001-23000&file=23000-23047
23004. "Alcoholic beverage" includes alcohol, spirits, liquor,
wine, beer, and every liquid or solid containing alcohol, spirits,
wine, or beer, and which contains one-half of 1 percent or more of
alcohol by volume and which is fit for beverage purposes either alone
or when diluted, mixed, or combined with other substances.
Can he prove what I was drinking? (If he can it would be coke anyways), All he has is he saw me spilling something on the ground when we see each other, I have been saying it was the warm flat remains of the coke I have been drinking and couldn't toss away in a trashcan.
The cup might have alcohol smell, can he prove the beverage in it was above 0.5%, Even if he can, drinking coke from a cup that had a very small amount of already diluted "alcoholic beverage" probably won't exceed .5%.

the alcoholic content of the mixed drink it irrelevent. If there was anything that came from a bottle with .5% or more alcohol in it, you were drinking an alcoholic beverage.

 

[I'mTheFather]

What do you expect here? That someone agree with you? Doesn't seem likely. So what do you expect here?

You have 3 choices. Plead guilty and pay the fine. Plead innocent and defend yourself. Hire an attorney. I'd hire the attorney, or at least get a consult.

 

[ardav]

the alcoholic content of the mixed drink it irrelevent. If there was anything that came from a bottle with .5% or more alcohol in it, you were drinking an alcoholic beverage.

Good catch. But as I stated I have been drinking coke in a cup that had alcohol in it, (hence the smell -that is if anyone smelled it-)

 

[cbg]

As you yourself point out, this isn't CSI. They're allowed to make reasonable inferences based on what was seen (and you cannot know what someone else saw) and on your actions.