Got a ticket for drinking in public for no reason

[ardav]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

On halloween night (around 2AM) I was waiting outside on UCSD campus in front of this student house where we have been having a party with my friends. I was holding a white foam cup and drinking like remaining 2 fingers coke out of it (if it is relevant I did drink alcohol that night from that cup). As I see the Residential Security Officer coming, I spilled the remaining 1 finger of the drink in the soil not wanting to have conversions like "is it alcohol" etc. So there I am sitting with an empty cup in my hand. RSO asks me for my ID, he told me he has enough experience that he saw me spilling a drink in the ground and to him it means it was alcohol, asked if I am a student, I said i don't want to answer question and I refused to show my id, (because I believe I have a right and I don't have to). Asked him if I can leave, he told me to wait and called the cops. (at this point I am not rude to him, aggressive or drunk). I was there simply explaining I don't have to present my ID and want to leave.
Cops came and we have the similar discussion, they ask if I am a student (if it's relevant to you I am a graduate 26 yo) and show them my ID. I refused to show my ID, explaining same things, I don't want to answer questions and i dont have to show ID, asked repeatedly if I am being arrested, they said no, if i am free to go they said no, they told me I am being detained, I asked for what crime I am being detained for, they didn't answer clearly (like "you are drunk', you are drinking" etc.) Again at this point, I am using words like "sir, officer" , I am sitting calmly and just trying to exercise my rights. They asked me if i was drinking whole night, i said i don't want to answer any questions and want to leave.
After a while they got sick of it, and handcuffed me and walked me to their car, again I verbally told I was cooperating and I calmly walked to their car. The cop patted me down, I told him I have my wallet phone and keys in my pockets. He tooks my wallet out without my consent and pulls out my id . And do the background check. I am still explaining I have a right not to answer any questions (which they disagreed and told me I have to), I asked for what crime I am being detained for, still no clear answer (they didn't read me my rights for the record), I am again calm, sober, smiling, respectful and not aggressive through all this. Finally he write me ticket for "115654 b (?) sdmc?- consume alcohol in public" and released me. I didn't argue, got the ticket and left.
Facts:
I was not drinking alcohol outside, by the time RSO comes I am sitting with an empty cup.
I refused to show my ID voluntarily, the cop eventually took it off my wallet while i was handcuffed.
All cops know is what RSO told them , it should be something like "this guy spilled a drink in the ground and not showing his ID", All they know is I am sitting there with an empty paper cup in my hand. There are no cans, nothing.
I did drink some alcohol that night but NOT in public, also I am not acting aggressive, drunk or rude neither to RSO or to cops.
Before you say "You should have just show your ID and get it over with" , that's exactly my point. I should NOT have to present my id to prove that I am innocent. (and chances are RSO would give me a citation anyways, because he saw me spilling something in the ground and that automatically means alcohol, I told him "it was coke and got warm, and didn't want to drink anymore")

So what is your analysis? I know to majority of people I acted like a jerk or stupid but I hope some of you would get my point.

 

[Just Blue]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

On halloween night (around 2AM) I was waiting outside on UCSD campus in front of this student house where we have been having a party with my friends. I was holding a white foam cup and drinking like remaining 2 fingers coke out of it (if it is relevant I did drink alcohol that night from that cup). As I see the Residential Security Officer coming, I spilled the remaining 1 finger of the drink in the soil not wanting to have conversions like "is it alcohol" etc. So there I am sitting with an empty cup in my hand. RSO asks me for my ID, he told me he has enough experience that he saw me spilling a drink in the ground and to him it means it was alcohol, asked if I am a student, I said i don't want to answer question and I refused to show my id, (because I believe I have a right and I don't have to). Asked him if I can leave, he told me to wait and called the cops. (at this point I am not rude to him, aggressive or drunk). I was there simply explaining I don't have to present my ID and want to leave.
Cops came and we have the similar discussion, they ask if I am a student (if it's relevant to you I am a graduate 26 yo) and show them my ID. I refused to show my ID, explaining same things, I don't want to answer questions and i dont have to show ID, asked repeatedly if I am being arrested, they said no, if i am free to go they said no, they told me I am being detained, I asked for what crime I am being detained for, they didn't answer clearly (like "you are drunk', you are drinking" etc.) Again at this point, I am using words like "sir, officer" , I am sitting calmly and just trying to exercise my rights. They asked me if i was drinking whole night, i said i don't want to answer any questions and want to leave.
After a while they got sick of it, and handcuffed me and walked me to their car, again I verbally told I was cooperating and I calmly walked to their car. The cop patted me down, I told him I have my wallet phone and keys in my pockets. He tooks my wallet out without my consent and pulls out my id . And do the background check. I am still explaining I have a right not to answer any questions (which they disagreed and told me I have to), I asked for what crime I am being detained for, still no clear answer (they didn't read me my rights for the record), I am again calm, sober, smiling, respectful and not aggressive through all this. Finally he write me ticket for "115654 b (?) sdmc?- consume alcohol in public" and released me. I didn't argue, got the ticket and left.
Facts:
I was not drinking alcohol outside, by the time RSO comes I am sitting with an empty cup.
I refused to show my ID voluntarily, the cop eventually took it off my wallet while i was handcuffed.
All cops know is what RSO told them , it should be something like "this guy spilled a drink in the ground and not showing his ID", All they know is I am sitting there with an empty paper cup in my hand. There are no cans, nothing.
I did drink some alcohol that night but NOT in public, also I am not acting aggressive, drunk or rude neither to RSO or to cops.
Before you say "You should have just show your ID and get it over with" , that's exactly my point. I should NOT have to present my id to prove that I am innocent. (and chances are RSO would give me a citation anyways, because he saw me spilling something in the ground and that automatically means alcohol, I told him "it was coke and got warm, and didn't want to drink anymore")

So what is your analysis? I know to majority of people I acted like a jerk or stupid but I hope some of you would get my point.

Gotta say you kinda lost me with the "two fingers". I have never met a person that said that about anything but booze.

 

[ardav]

I am not a native speaker, I was trying to express the amount of the drink, use 2 cl. if you want. I filled it with coke before leaving and drinking, hydrating (this is at the end of the night) while waiting for my friends. I consumed most of it but the last couple sips, when I see the RSO I could have chugged it leave it as it is or spill, he could work with any of these if wants to incriminate me

 

[Just Blue]

I am not a native speaker, I was trying to express the amount of the drink, use 2 cl. if you want.

lol!! Sure...Based on your OP you are a poor non english person. Go with that in court.

 

[Just Blue]

what is the name of your state (only u.s. Law)? California

on halloween night (around 2am) i was waiting outside on ucsd campus in front of this student house where we have been having a party with my friends. I was holding a white foam cup and drinking like remaining 2 fingers coke out of it (if it is relevant i did drink alcohol that night from that cup). As i see the residential security officer coming, i spilled the remaining 1 finger of the drink in the soil not wanting to have conversions like "is it alcohol" etc. So there i am sitting with an empty cup in my hand. Rso asks me for my id, he told me he has enough experience that he saw me spilling a drink in the ground and to him it means it was alcohol, asked if i am a student, i said i don't want to answer question and i refused to show my id, (because i believe i have a right and i don't have to). Asked him if i can leave, he told me to wait and called the cops. (at this point i am not rude to him, aggressive or drunk). I was there simply explaining i don't have to present my id and want to leave.
Cops came and we have the similar discussion, they ask if i am a student (if it's relevant to you i am a graduate 26 yo) and show them my id. I refused to show my id, explaining same things, i don't want to answer questions and i dont have to show id, asked repeatedly if i am being arrested, they said no, if i am free to go they said no, they told me i am being detained, i asked for what crime i am being detained for, they didn't answer clearly (like "you are drunk', you are drinking" etc.) again at this point, i am using words like "sir, officer" , i am sitting calmly and just trying to exercise my rights. They asked me if i was drinking whole night, i said i don't want to answer any questions and want to leave.
After a while they got sick of it, and handcuffed me and walked me to their car, again i verbally told i was cooperating and i calmly walked to their car. The cop patted me down, i told him i have my wallet phone and keys in my pockets. He tooks my wallet out without my consent and pulls out my id . And do the background check. I am still explaining i have a right not to answer any questions (which they disagreed and told me i have to), i asked for what crime i am being detained for, still no clear answer (they didn't read me my rights for the record), i am again calm, sober, smiling, respectful and not aggressive through all this. Finally he write me ticket for "115654 b (?) sdmc?- consume alcohol in public" and released me. I didn't argue, got the ticket and left.
Facts:
I was not drinking alcohol outside, by the time rso comes i am sitting with an empty cup.
I refused to show my id voluntarily, the cop eventually took it off my wallet while i was handcuffed.
All cops know is what rso told them , it should be something like "this guy spilled a drink in the ground and not showing his id", all they know is i am sitting there with an empty paper cup in my hand. There are no cans, nothing.
I did drink some alcohol that night but not in public, also i am not acting aggressive, drunk or rude neither to rso or to cops.
Before you say "you should have just show your id and get it over with" , that's exactly my point. I should not have to present my id to prove that i am innocent. (and chances are rso would give me a citation anyways, because he saw me spilling something in the ground and that automatically means alcohol, i told him "it was coke and got warm, and didn't want to drink anymore")

so what is your analysis? I know to majority of people i acted like a jerk or stupid but i hope some of you would get my point.

p4p
****************************..

 

[justalayman]

so your defense to the charge you were not drinking in public is that the drink you dumped on the ground was nothing other than cola. When you did that you dumped your only defense. If sampled, it would have contained so little alcohol it would not be perceptible and would exonerate you. Now they have you smelling of booze, holding a cup that smelled of booze, and you appearing to hide the evidence of booze in the drink.



for being a graduate you don't appear to be very smart. You screwed yourself on this one.


the rest is allowed since he could cite you so he gets to demand ID and hold you until your identification is discovered. I guess you should be grateful your wallet was in your pocket since he may have taken you to the station until your identification was proven.

 

[ardav]

lol!! Sure...Based on your OP you are a poor non english person. Go with that in court.

I will go with what the truth is, I am an engineer I like to talk in numbers . I am just trying to say, it is not like I flushed a whole cup of liquid in panic in the ground as soon as I see the RSO, it was the end of the drink where it got flat and warm and at that point RSO already judged and sentenced me in his mind. So there wouldn't be any other outcome if I just drank it when I see him (He would say "you saw me and drank the whole thing so it must be alcohol", if I kept it ,the cup might have smelled. But the ticket cops write is for "drinking in public" and that is where I want to understand on what grounds I was charged with that. )

He got pissed because I refused to ID myself, and that's the point I am trying to make. I am not legally obligated to ID myself unless I commit a crime, being suspected of a crime, driving. I definitely should not have to ID myself while I am sitting calmly, quietly just because I am holding a cup.

I checked the ticket so I correct the time this happens at 1:15 AM not 2:00. But my point is at that time im not trying to drink anymore alcohol, it is the end of the night I just wanted to go home.

What is your thought on other things? Especially cop taking my wallet out of my pocket without my consent. Not seeing me drinking anything but still giving me a ticket for it. What is he going to say in court? "RSO told us He was sitting outside of a party and holding a cup an spilled the remaining 1 finger when he saw him and refused to ID himself so we handcuffed him and took his wallet so he must be drinking in public"

Again I was calmly trying to explaing RSO and cops, not aggressive or acting drunk, being respectful and just trying to assert my right not to ID myself without a probable cause.

 

[Just Blue]

i am not a native speaker, i was trying to express the amount of the drink, use 2 cl. If you want. I filled it with coke before leaving and drinking, hydrating (this is at the end of the night) while waiting for my friends. I consumed most of it but the last couple sips, when i see the rso i could have chugged it leave it as it is or spill, he could work with any of these if wants to incriminate me

q4p


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[ardav]

so your defense to the charge you were not drinking in public is that the drink you dumped on the ground was nothing other than cola. When you did that you dumped your only defense. If sampled, it would have contained so little alcohol it would not be perceptible and would exonerate you. Now they have you smelling of booze, holding a cup that smelled of booze, and you appearing to hide the evidence of booze in the drink.



for being a graduate you don't appear to be very smart. You screwed yourself on this one.


the rest is allowed since he could cite you so he gets to demand ID and hold you until your identification is discovered. I guess you should be grateful your wallet was in your pocket since he may have taken you to the station until your identification was proven.

This is not CSI no one is going to "sample" anything. They didn't even care about the cup, i dropped it in the ground when i got handcuffed. And it was still lying there when I got released (I might be charged for littering maybe )

My point is how can they demand for my ID for no reason. I never told you I was smelling of booze or the cup definitely smelled of booze (coke probably washed it off), no one told me they could smell alcohol in my breath or on me.

 

[ardav]

q4p


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I don't understand these acronyms. You are focusing on something of so little importance

 

[Just Blue]

I don't understand these acronyms. You are focusing on something of so little importance

Curious that.

I think you sould hire an attorney...S/He may give you some insight.

 

[justalayman]

This is not CSI no one is going to "sample" anything. They didn't even care about the cup, i dropped it in the ground when i got handcuffed. And it was still lying there when I got released (I might be charged for littering maybe )

My point is how can they demand for my ID for no reason. I never told you I was smelling of booze or the cup definitely smelled of booze (coke probably washed it off), no one told me they could smell alcohol in my breath or on me.

you are wrong about that, at least if you wanted to use it as a defense. it would be your defense team that would sample the beverage to prove it did not contain alcohol.

they can demand your id because there was probable cause you broke the law. They can either ask for your ID or arrest you until your ID is proven to their satisfaction.

If you had been drinking, you smelled of booze.

nobody has to tell you they smelled it on your breath.




so if you believe they had no proof, defend your self in court. Don't be surprised when the cop states you smelled of booze as did your cup.

 

[ardav]

you are wrong about that, at least if you wanted to use it as a defense. it would be your defense team that would sample the beverage to prove it did not contain alcohol.
they can demand your id because there was probable cause you broke the law. They can either ask for your ID or arrest you until your ID is proven to their satisfaction.
If you had been drinking, you smelled of booze.
nobody has to tell you they smelled it on your breath.
so if you believe they had no proof, defend your self in court. Don't be surprised when the cop states you smelled of booze as did your cup.

Nothing a cop says would surprise me, I was never told the probable cause, I kept asking for what crime/ suspicion I was being detained and not free to go. No one gave a clear answer.
Neither RSO nor the cops see a filled cup in my hand. I am not acting drunk, no one accused me of being "drunk" or smelling alcohol
I had literally at most 1 finger (sorry for keep using that term) of coke in the cup, come on now, how can I keep it, store it and get it tested?

Here are more details about the drinking of that night. I have had 2-3 Tecate lights at home between 6-8 then I have been at some other friends house from 8:30 to 11 where I drink one cup of beer from a keg and 2 vodka cranberries, and we arrived to that final place by midnight where I had 1 large redbull with little vodka in a cup . And kept drinking and refilling it with coke couple times till 1AM (cups are precious in those parties you know ). By the time I was outside it contained no alcohol.

I might agree with the RSO, if you see a guy holding a cup outside a party and tosses it, chances are it is alcohol, but in this case it is not, that's also why I acted the way I acted. I am sitting by myself at the end of the night, not in a party mode anymore, not acting drunk, and this all escalated because I tried to exercise my right.

I am wondering what their claims are going to be for "drinking in public". Because there is no drinking activity let alone drinking alcohol.

 

[ardav]

Also since we are all obeying rules and laws and living in a perfect system, here is a funny observation, this party took place on student housing on a dry-campus. And when I was talking to the RSO, the owner of the party came and told him that people are leaving the party now (wow what good college kids having a halloween party with absolutely no alcohol and not acting drunk at all). I mean I had enough interactions with police or other entities around the world for one reason or another, and I know and experienced that you can bend the rules to some degree for both sides, sweet talk your way out of it. But am I crazy to believe that the system should just work at its default setting when there is no crime committed without being framed as guilty automatically?

 

[Zigner]

Also since we are all obeying rules and laws and living in a perfect system, here is a funny observation, this party took place on student housing on a dry-campus. And when I was talking to the RSO, the owner of the party came and told him that people are leaving the party now (wow what good college kids having a halloween party with absolutely no alcohol and not acting drunk at all). I mean I had enough interactions with police or other entities around the world for one reason or another, and I know and experienced that you can bend the rules to some degree for both sides, sweet talk your way out of it. But am I crazy to believe that the system should just work at its default setting when there is no crime committed without being framed as guilty automatically?

I have had exactly three non-intentional "interactions" with police and various similar entities (including Eastern Bloc countries) in my 45+ years of life. You, at 26 years of age, sound like you have a LOT of growing up to do. Good luck to you.