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Hippa Hipaa

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stephz

Junior Member
Kansas
My Brother Committed Suicide In 2002. We Have Some Unanwered Questions. Recently Someone Approached Us With Some Startling News.

My Mom Had Requested An Autopsy Report Shortly After His Death...but Never Recieved It. She Is No Longer With Us Either.

We Have Contacted The Police Department And They Tell Us That Becasue Of The Hippa Hipaa Laws They Can't Give Anything But The Top Sheet? Does This Ring True? I Realize That It Applies To Medical. Isn't Autopsy Public Record? We Have Requested All Documents (not Just The Top Sheet), The Autopsy Report, And Any Video.

Anyone Know The Answers?????
 


CdwJava

Senior Member
The police may not quite understand the regulations and are operating under their own policy. The appropriate place for you to inquire about the autopsy would be with the local medical examiner's or coroner's office. The police are not likely to give you someone else's report.

Generally autopsy reports are public record and are readily available to the next of kin or to the representative of the deceased's estate. However, every state has very different laws on this issue so your mother may have to do some probing to find out what to do.

- Carl
 

stephz

Junior Member
hipaa/hippa

KANSAS
Thank you CdwJava for your response.

What about the other documents they have.

I know that suicide is filed as misc. file.

Can we get all that file?

Can we get any of these?

1. Initial Report/with narrative
2. Investigation report/with narrative
3. Photos
4. Interviews
5. Video Tapes (If any)
6. Sketches Diagram
7. Copies of any evidence receipts
8. Any and all other miscellaneous records pertaining to the report

I am asking this again because to my understanding of the Kansas Open Records Act you can request it.

I guess I don't understand how HIPAA/HIPPA is keeping the Department from letting us have the requested documents.

I am not savvy on the law....but can a Police dept. make it's own rules? Don't they have to follow the same laws according to the state it is located in?

Educate me please!!!!
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
I do not think it is a matter of medical privacy that is preventing the release of the autopsy, but it might be. The bottom line likely is that you do not have a right to access those items. Perhaps the next of kin or the executor of the estate might, but you may not.

Typically anything related to the death of an individual is going to be released by the coroner's office and not the local police.

Unfortunately, every state has different laws on death investigations so there is no real uniform practice and procedure. Kansas may have some very strict laws on the release of this information.

If you REALLY want the information, your brother's legal next of kin or heir to his estate may have to hire an attorney to obtain it.

However, keep this in mind, in virtually every suicide or suspicious death there is someone who doesn't quite believe it. "They just wouldn't do that" ... or, "This other person had it out for them ..." And in most of these matters, there is someone who comes forward a year or so down the line with some "revelation" about the case. I have to deal with a couple of these every year and so far not one of them has resulted in a different ruling. I set aside a couple hours and go through everything we have on the investigation. Usually, I can answer the questions about body location (how it got there, where it was relative to the weapon or instrument used, etc.), letters, method of investigation, why we did what or talked to whom, etc. And in all but one such case I have managed to set the family's minds at ease ... the one case involved a psychic who said it was murder :rolleyes: and the sister of the victim of a tragic traffic accident wouldn't take anyone's word for the truth of the matter.

Be very cautious of someone coming forward three years after the fact with allegedly damning information. It may be completely irrelevent ... and it's likely that nothing will be able to confirm or deny whatever was said.

So, before your family spends thousands of dollars on attorney's fees to obtain this information, perhaps you really need to sit down and evaluate what this information might mean. Or, see if you can arrange a sit down with the investigator and let them know what you do.

here's a link to the Kansas Attorney General's site that has some info on pulbic records:

http://www.accesskansas.org/ksag/OPEN/KORA.htm

Here are two elements of the opinion that seem to give fuel to BOTH arguments:

Coroner reports are subject to disclosure unless they have been filed with the clerk of the district court and designated as a criminal investigation record. A.G. Opin. No. 86-5 and K.S.A. 22a-232. Autopsies as part of coroner's reports are open unless the coroner's report is filed as a criminal investigation record. Burroughs v. Thomas, 23 Kan.App.2d 769 (1997).

And,

Other records of investigations of a death may be closed even if the death turns out to be from natural causes so long as there was initially a criminal investigation. Seck v. City of Overland Park, 29 Kan. App. 2d 256 (2000).

So, if the investigation began as a criminal investigation, it may remain closed to public inspection.

This may take an attorney.

- Carl
 

stephz

Junior Member
Hippa/hipaa

KANSAS
Hey Carl,
You explained this very well.....and you are right...I know people say those things about thier loved ones. It is hard to let go.

(My brother shot himself with a shotgun and a slug......my mom called the police department to find out how long it would take to get the body back from the coroner for a funeral?
The officer told us that there was no sense in having an open casket because there was nothing from the shoulders up except a flap of skin.....I puked!!!!)

I do have to question why this person has come back after this many years and has made statements surrounding his death. :mad:

Carl you have been a great help...thank you for the website I will give it to my siblings.

Very Greatful! :)
Steph
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
stephz said:
Hey Carl,
You explained this very well.....and you are right...I know people say those things about thier loved ones. It is hard to let go.
Understandably so. I think part of it is because if the family allows themselves to believe it was suicide, they feel they have to blame themselves for not seeing the signs. In reality, that is all wrong. In retrospect the signs were there, but unless you KNOW what to look for, you will miss it. and men tend to be far more successful than women both at concealing their intent and in carrying it out.

(My brother shot himself with a shotgun and a slug......my mom called the police department to find out how long it would take to get the body back from the coroner for a funeral?
The officer told us that there was no sense in having an open casket because there was nothing from the shoulders up except a flap of skin.....I puked!!!!)
I have seen a few of these ... and others I will not discuss here. I can understand the response. Most people do not have to see those images or even imagien them for real. It's always tragic.


I do have to question why this person has come back after this many years and has made statements surrounding his death. :mad:
It could be that they think they are being helpful ... it could be that they want something ... or it could be that they are simply conspiratorial by nature and NEED there to be something more to it. If a person sets their mind to it they can find holes (real or imagined) in anything.

The mind has a tremendous amount of control over our logic centers.


Carl you have been a great help...thank you for the website I will give it to my siblings.
Thanks! :D

And good luck to all of you.

- Carl
 

stephz

Junior Member
Autopsy Report

Kansas

Hey Carl,
We recieved the autopsy report. It was efficient and informative.

A lot of our questions could have been answered from his girlfriend, but.......a couple of weeks after my brothers' death she packed up and left for California. She would e-mail every now and then (to my mom). Mom asked questions. Girlfriend would not reply with answers. She would just drop a line and ask how Mom was doing(mom passed away in 2004). Eventually she stop e-mailing completely.

There are still a couple of questions we have. :confused:

One of the cops told us that a neighbor told him there was a motorcycle at the house. My brother nor his girlfriend owned one, but....her ex-boyfriend who just got out of prison did ( We always wondered how he found out where she was HMMM ;) ). My brother and him had a couple of run-ins.

I know that seems irrevelant to anyone else but it means something to us......because the girlfriend was so secretive about everything.

I know my siblings and I sound like we can't let go.....I don't know if it is not that we can't let go as much as it is that we don't know what stressed him to this point. :(

Thanks for all your help you have steered us in the right direction and eased our minds 98%. :)

Have a Great Day!!!! :D
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
stephz said:
Hey Carl,
We recieved the autopsy report. It was efficient and informative.
I'm glad.


One of the cops told us that a neighbor told him there was a motorcycle at the house. My brother nor his girlfriend owned one, but....her ex-boyfriend who just got out of prison did ( We always wondered how he found out where she was HMMM ;) ). My brother and him had a couple of run-ins.
Keep in mind that witnesses can sometimes be wrong, and the statement may have been recorded incorrectly. A neighbor who really wants to be helpful may recall a motorcycle ... but it could have been from another day, it could even been from another driveway. All because a neighbor believed it was there earlier does not mean it was - nor does it mean that it belonged to anyone who was involved in something heinous.

There are always alternative explanations. And, as I previously mentioned, when one looks hard enough, one can find holes and conspiracies anywhere.


I know that seems irrevelant to anyone else but it means something to us......because the girlfriend was so secretive about everything.
There could be reasons she was secretive. Maybe an affair ... maybe there were some skeletons in your brothers closet that she was reluctant to pass on to anyone else. She may have kept mum and acted suspicious to avoid tainting the memory of the deceased. Maybe she snagged the silverware from the kitchen when she left. Who knows?


I know my siblings and I sound like we can't let go.....I don't know if it is not that we can't let go as much as it is that we don't know what stressed him to this point.
The bottom line is that you will likely NEVER know all the answers. And if you decide that you won't accept the answers before you, then nothing will be satisfactory.

What you're going through is typical. Unfortunately, I have seen it eat people up to the point where they actively joined the loved one.


Thanks for all your help you have steered us in the right direction and eased our minds 98%. :)
That's about all that I can ask. :)


- Carl
 

stephz

Junior Member
Ethyl

Kansas

Hey Carl,
You are right we probably never know.......and maybe it just supposed to be that way. :cool:

I do have another question for you :eek:

Do you know what Ethyl is?

I told my family that I believe it is either what goes into the making of alchol or that it is what alchol does (fermenting) after setting in the body after death. His report said he had .03 grams. (doesn't seem like much)

If you are sick of answering questions for me just let me know :)

I do appreciate your advice, information and time!! :D

Thanks!!!
 
Last edited:

CdwJava

Senior Member
I couldn't begin to tell you what its presence in the body might say.

Sorry.

And no problem on answering what I can.

- Carl
 

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