Illegal entry, suppression of evidence, multiple errors on MIP citation-any recourse?

[kkjoseph]

What is the name of your state? Colorado, event occured in Sumitt County Colorado.

My 18-year old Daughter received an MIP last week, along with 14 other kids. Officers responded to a noise complaint, but showed up after everyone was in bed. They knocked at the front door, didn't get a response, so walked around the deck and looked inside the shut sliding glass door. They claimed to see two girls sleeping, one in a sleeping bag on the floor and the other on a couch. They claimed to then enter the house now based on a welfare check. They also woke up 12 other 18 & under people down stairs, brought them all upstairs where they were given MIP citations. They only had 4 people blow for alcohol levels. The others were written up regardless w/o any sobriety tests either. A dog was brought through the house as well.

My questions are, can the evidence of alcohol be suppressed due to their possible unlawful entry? Secondly, the citation my daughter received has her name spelled wrong, DOB off by 2 years and a completely incorrect address of where the event occured.

Thanks in advance for any guidance.

KKWhat is the name of your state?

[seniorjudge]

...My questions are, can the evidence of alcohol be suppressed due to their possible unlawful entry? Secondly, the citation my daughter received has her name spelled wrong, DOB off by 2 years and a completely incorrect address of where the event occured....

I doubt there is illegal entry. They were sent to the place where they were told there was a lot of noise. No one answered the door. They couldn't just leave.

All that other stuff is irrelevant.

[tranquility]

I do not see a welfare check as being reasonable here. In the ninth circut the right is under the community caretaking funciton and requires a finding of three elements:
1. The police must have "reasonable grounds" to believe there is an emergency and there is an immediate need for their entry to protect lives or property.
and
2. The search must not be primarily motivated by a desire to make an arrest or search for evidence.
and
3. There must be some reasonable basis, "approximating probable cause" to associate the emergency with the area or place to be searched.

In this case the police had a call of too much noise. We don't know the time line, but even if the call was very close in proximity, on arrival the police found there was not too much noise coming from the house. They walked around to a deck and looked inside. This alone may be an illegal search if the deck is not one where the public is usually allowed.

Even if it were a place where the public is usually allowed, say the police saw alcohol all over the place with the young people sleeping. This is still not enough to enter the house on the supposed justification unless they reasonably believed they all drunk themselves to a dangerous level. I find this unlikely if some were in sleeping bags.

The police search seems bad on many levels and you should get an attorney to review the specific facts of the situation. Unless there is *a lot* more which has not been mentioned, the evidence should get tossed.

[msiron]

Originally Posted by seniorjudge

...My questions are, can the evidence of alcohol be suppressed due to their possible unlawful entry? Secondly, the citation my daughter received has her name spelled wrong, DOB off by 2 years and a completely incorrect address of where the event occured....

I doubt there is illegal entry. They were sent to the place where they were told there was a lot of noise. No one answered the door. They couldn't just leave.

All that other stuff is irrelevant.

You must be a judge in BEND-ME-OVER, USA.

[kkjoseph]

I'll get the sheriff's report to make sure I'm not missing anything about the deputies and their verbiage about why they believed a welfare check was in order if they saw kids in sleeping bags. Always two sides right? From one participants witnessing of the entry, they opened the sliding glass door and shouted: "Wake up all you little twats"! This guy must have pine beetles crawling up his behind given his foul disposition. When they asked who was the owner, my daughter stood up acknowledged it, and a deputy shoved her down on the couch bruising her arm. Several witnesses and a picture of the large bruise is also on the table as far as I'm concerned. The user Tranquility posts that there are formalities to how this might be dealt with in the 9th Court. I assume that's in another Jurisdiction, probably even outside of Colorado. Should I be focusing on the 5th Judicial District as they appear to be the governing body for Summit County in Colorado if I intend on trying for a suppression?

Thanks in advance

Kevin

[tranquility]

You should look in the 10th circuit for the federal limitations. You would look to Colorado law for state limitations. You should not be doing the looking, but have an attorney do the looking. Criminal matters are not a good idea to go pro per.

[tranquility]

No large group of unsupervised underage drinkers that are rowdy enough to generate a police noise complaint, all decide at once "oops it's night-night time", then roll out the sleeping bags and immediately go to sleep soundly enough that they can't hear the cops knocking on the front and rear doors. That just doesn't happen.

Say they did this entirely on purpose. They saw the cops and faked being asleep and didn't answer the door on purpose. What then? Same issues.

[CdwJava]

There could be a lot missing here ... perhaps the reporting party reported observing a number of underage kids stumbling around drunk ... perhaps when the officers looked inside they saw alcohol everywhere and a teen apparently passed out or sprawled unnaturally on the floor.

On its face, the search would seem questionable. But, there are circumstances that could make it perfectly reasonable.

That is why it is important to have an attorney review the report to assess it for issues that might be subject to challenge.

Curt's depiction of the suddenness of the rowdy party-goers going night-night got me chuckling! I can't tell you the number of times we've witnessed this phenomenon when the cops come knocking at the door ... what's funnier is that from the outside you hear all the supposedly hushed whispers (really LOUD whispers) mumbling about the cops and alerting everyone to fake being asleep!

Inebriation can be humorous for the sober.

- Carl

[kkjoseph]

Curt's depiction of the 'suddenness' of the quiet cast over the house is a lame and an incorrect assumption. As I said, once the complete report is available then the time between the initial noise complaint and the cop’s arrival at 2:00am will be better understood, providing a clearer picture as to if the kids were truly asleep or if they suddenly went to bed. Some great Al Franken wannabe humor here by Curt, but that radio show is dead as is your humor. I looked towards this forum for some neutral opinions as I gather information about how I deal with it. Every forum has a clown like Curt who is counterproductive to the forum's intent.

I'm not at all upset by Curt's next assertion that that the poster (me) is willing to believe and/or defend my daughters actions. Curt obviously has a predisposition against any possible scenarios and instead would rather cast doubt and imply certain myopia by me about the event while we wait for the official report & facts. Who said anything about beer Curt? Another assumpton?

I hardly support any of this activity whether it gets thrown out of court or a fine imposed. My Daughter has lost any privileges to use the house for any purposes for a long time as well as her driving responsibilities. And imagine this Curt, all without due process! I'm so naive!

I understand the nature of my liability from these events and it's held in the highest of responsibilities to me. It doesn’t take a preponderance of the evidence for me to penalize my daughter over this event. Believe me, that penalizaton is taking place. I posted here for some advice, got some good, got some wacko (Sorry Curt, you're lame), but all appreciated.

Lastly, the first response to my post by SeniorJudge has me wondering a bit. While I might be reaching to challenge the citation because of all the errors, i.e. wrong name spelling, wrong address and DOB being two years off, I always cringe when I see someone get off from a truly serious crime because of a failure by a peace officer to either properly Mirandize a suspect or by making errors in the citation/report. I'd rather see a teenager get off from this type of charge then a murder suspect because of a lack of attention to this important requirement.

You all have a great weekend

Kevin

[xylene]

Originally Posted by Curt581

Ever think about the value of making her pay adult prices for adult screw-ups? Why shield and defend her? Why isn't SHE asking these questions and doing this research?

If she was being treated 'like an adult' then there would be no crime in this situation.

What you are really asking for is adult punishment for juvenile crime.

Stuff that up your prohibitionist pipe and smoke it.

Yes, neo-prohibitionist policies are one key reason which points to Bush's America is the nascent TOTALITARIAN NANNY STATE.

PS (To the Neo-Prohibitionists)- I don't care if your family member(s) died in some tragedy that is obliquely (or directly) related to alcohol. I do not have to respect your for your loss. Just shut up and get over it. Your daughters tombstone is not the high ground you imagine.

[kkjoseph]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkjoseph
Curt's depiction of the 'suddenness' of the quiet cast over the house is a lame and an incorrect assumption. As I said, once the complete report is available then the time between the initial noise complaint and the cop’s arrival at 2:00am will be better understood, providing a clearer picture as to if the kids were truly asleep or if they suddenly went to bed. Some great Al Franken wannabe humor here by Curt, but that radio show is dead as is your humor. I looked towards this forum for some neutral opinions as I gather information about how I deal with it. Every forum has a clown like Curt who is counterproductive to the forum's intent.

Whoops. Must have hit a nerve, huh?

KJ: Nah Curt, just pointing out your first assumption. Even with several comments that I made about not having all the facts (absent the official report) and that there are two sides to every story, you showed your colors very quickly.


Quote:
I'm not at all upset by Curt's next assertion that that the poster (me) is willing to believe and/or defend my daughters actions. Curt obviously has a predisposition against any possible scenarios and instead would rather cast doubt and imply certain myopia by me about the event while we wait for the official report & facts. Who said anything about beer Curt? Another assumption?

Yep, it was an assumption. But was it wrong?

KJ: not sure, waiting for the report. Still an interesting observation about your lack of impartiality from the get-go.

Even if I was... what difference does it make if it was beer, wine, or vodka?

KJ: From a Father's perspective, none, I'm pissed and dealing with it. From a Citizen's legal perspective and posturing, it makes a difference to me that you called it a beer-bash without any information about the event. Assumptions are fine for a forum like this, but do you really think they have any place in a courtroom? If you were a Judge, would you allow it? If you were a defense attorney, would you contest it?


Quote:
I hardly support any of this activity whether it gets thrown out of court or a fine imposed. My Daughter has lost any privileges to use the house for any purposes for a long time as well as her driving responsibilities. And imagine this Curt, all without due process! I'm so naive!

No, you're not naive. You're an outrageously over-protective parent. Something becoming more prevalent than ever. Seems every parents' refrain is "Not MY kid!"

Whoops, another assumption. Damn.

KJ: Hmmm, I've said on every post for this thread that I (1) had only one side to the story and want to hear from the Police side, noting that there were always two sides to each story. Doesn't sound like a Not MY kid type of demeanor to me, or outrageous defense either, (2) that my daughter was already being penalized for the event, (3) Future usage of the property by her is over, she's lost the privilege. Damn, that Not MY Kid thing again. Outrageously over-protective to post here and ask questions, challenge certain responses on their biased tenor, which just appear to be you Curt? Hey, an another assumption by you Curtman: every parents' refrain is Not MY kid. A double Whoops from you big guy. Double-Damn.


Ever think about the value of making her pay adult prices for adult screw-ups? Why shield and defend her? Why isn't SHE asking these questions and doing this research?

KJ: Yep, she's paying her court fees, penalties, bump in driving insurance once they get wind of it (she wasn't driving, but I need to make that clear for the ole Assumer). Isn't the legal system setup to help shield citizens until due process runs its course? Wouldn't a parent want to defend their child as best they could in the legal process? Ever be blessed with kids and want to defend them, while teaching them appropriate and acceptable behavior? They are not mutually exclusive events. She's not asking these questions because responses like your contain a toxic tenor that only separates the two sides rather than provide guidance, council and getting people back on track.

There's a lot to be said for making her face her own responsibilities. At least she'd learn something instead of having Daddy fix it for her.

KJ:That learning is going on, believe me. You made my point very well with the Daddy fix it statement. You never got supported, so it's a sore spot for you. Hopefully someone will adopt you soon.

Kevin

[xylene]

Originally Posted by Curt581

So... in calling me a "prohibitionist" (whatever that means), are you saying you advocate and support alcohol consumption by not just underage kids, but minors as well?

Just trying to clarify.

Do I support underage consumption? Straw Man Alert...

No, I support a rational set of uniform federal alcohol laws. 18 to consume openly (ie a bar or lawful public setting), 19 to purchase at a retail establishment, and 15 to consume in a private / family environment.

Strict and sensible DWI set at 0.1. Change to an impairment model of enforcement as technology permits.

Strict liability provisions for non-minors who provide alcohol to minors that is consumed privately. Liability for bars and restaurant who overserve guests.

Other non-reactionary provision that provide for harm reduction, alcohol awareness, and funded treatment.

Not the current MADD, prohibitionist approach of the christian Homelanders.

So... you're saying that it was legal for juveniles to consume alcohol before Bush took office?

So you are now contending that a Bush vote was a ballot thrown away as nothing in America has changed?

[kkjoseph]

Where does it say I'm required to be impartial?

Like I said, an interesting observation. Does that mean required to you Curt? Heavens Big Guy, anyone could detect your obvious bias! You don't have to justify your responses to us ole fella. We all see enough moronic behavor in the world to understand some of them sit at keyboards!. My statement was about waiting for the formal policie report to be available, not stumbling along the backwards and irrational path as you do...

We're IN a forum like this.
We're not in a courtroom.
I'm not a judge, nor am I a defense attorney.

Obviously, but please quit Tivo'ing Judge Judy! Your giving her a bad name with your parroting.

See... this is good. You're venting your anger. You're targeting me for it, along with the cops. That's good.

No anger here Curt. You took a position biased from the start and continued to compound it. I'm sorry you feel targeted, but that's probably a feeling you get everyday. We all feel for your loneliness and probable lack of parental support as you grew up (or continue to). I absolutely stated that I had only heard one side and not the police side of things, so no bashing at our guys/gals in Blue. They have tough jobs and probably don't appreciate someone at your intellect level playing their faux ally.


If I might make a suggestion... Next time you post a situation and question, include the answer you'd most like to be given. Doesn't matter whether it's correct or not. That way, we can cut and paste it back to you. It saves time and typing for us, and allows you to be happy with your experience here.

Deal?

Curt, you can try out for Monte Hall's role at another site, not here. My experience here has been fun and I've heard some great ideas about the event, even if none of those ideas came from your direction. Hard to understand your 'senior user' rating unless it's simply a wordcount of your drivel.

Kiss your kids Curt! Let them know there really is a soul deep within!

Kev