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Illegaly Detained By WalMart Assoicate. Pressing Charges.

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justalayman

Senior Member
dmcc10880;2861491]And to think this all could have been over with in less than 30 seconds by handing over the receipt. The Walmart person would probably not have done a complete inventory anyway.
I am sure this is true

Remember, this is Walmart's private property. They have the right to ensure that every piece of their property has been paid for.
I am positive this is incorrect.

By escalating this the OP subjected himself to being detained. Whoops... I just spilled a cup of coffee on me at the McD's drive-through!!!!! :D[
The OP did not escalate anything. He simply attempted to leave without being molested which is his absolute right unless there was a reasonable belief he stole something. It was the door guard that escalated the issue by grabbing him.
 


justalayman

Senior Member
Zigner;2861492]That's a matter for the courts to decide, I suppose ;)
ultimately, yes


I would say that about 80% of my visits to Walmart do NOT result in me leaving the store with unbagged merchandise.
I would say that nearly 100% of my visits do result in some merchandise not bagged, seriously and honestly. I buy so much milk that I am there several times in a week buying milk which is never bagged.
 

asiny

Senior Member
Remember, this is Walmart's private property. They have the right to ensure that every piece of their property has been paid for.
No. No they don't. Once you have paid you are free to leave. If they detain you and attempt to search you it is a 4th amendment violation.

I, being diplomatic, present the receipt and head out the door in 5 seconds. But if I ever refused to present a receipt - I am within my rights.

Pay close attention to page 2 as what they refer to as "Unlawful Taking"
http://media.bonnint.net/slc/2489/248982/24898223.pdf
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I would say that nearly 100% of my visits do result in some merchandise not bagged, seriously and honestly. I buy so much milk that I am there several times in a week buying milk which is never bagged.
Interesting - Milk is always bagged at my store.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
No. No they don't. Once you have paid you are free to leave. If they detain you and attempt to search you it is a 4th amendment violation.

I, being diplomatic, present the receipt and head out the door in 5 seconds. But if I ever refused to present a receipt - I am within my rights.

Pay close attention to page 2 as what they refer to as "Unlawful Taking"
http://media.bonnint.net/slc/2489/248982/24898223.pdf
no, no it is not a 4th amendment violation. The 4th amendment is concerning the government's limitations regarding searches and seizure.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
Interesting - Milk is always bagged at my store.
they ask if I want it bagged but since it is a waste and offers no benefits to me and actually is a bother since the bag gets in the way of grabbing the handle, I decline. There is also the cases of dog food, the bags of dog food, the laundry detergent and softener.

There are many items I purchase that do not get bagged either because they actually do not fit or it is a waste of resources and a bother.
 

asiny

Senior Member
no, no it is not a 4th amendment violation. The 4th amendment is concerning the government's limitations regarding searches and seizure.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Where does it state that it is in regards to government search only?
 

justalayman

Senior Member
Where does it state that it is in regards to government search only?
Really? You really want an answer?

Rather, think about this: when was the last time a private citizen went down and got a search warrant to search somebody else's house or car? When was the last time you heard it was legal for a private citizen to seize another's property on their own accord.

Please show me ONE case where the concern was that a private citizen violated another citizens rights enumerated under the 4th amendment.
 

asiny

Senior Member
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
I believe this is posted before the word warrant.

Your point was not in regards to 'how can a citizen gain a warrant';
The 4th amendment is concerning the government's limitations regarding searches and seizure.
The heading of the 4th amendment states;

Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.
I fail to see how the 4th amendment applies only to the government. Whilst I will concede the use of a 4th amendment violation is usually in response to governmental involvement - there is no reason it cannot be applied in this context.
 
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LillianX

Senior Member
I believe this is posted before the word warrant.

Your point was not in regards to 'how can a citizen gain a warrant';


The heading of the 4th amendment states;



I fail to see how the 4th amendment applies only to the government.
Then you fail to understand the most basic, fundamental fact about the Constitution.
 

Mass_Shyster

Senior Member
Where does it state that it is in regards to government search only?

The Bill of Rights was a compromise to the Anti-Federalists who were concerned that a Federal Government would become a tyranny. The first Ten Amendments, referred to as the Bill of Rights, is what prevented the Federal Government from taking control of the entire United States. (That is until the Supreme Court decided it could)

The first clause of the Fourth Amendment provides that the “right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated....” This text protects two types of expectations, one involving “searches,” the other “seizures.” A “search” occurs when an expectation of privacy that society is prepared to consider reasonable is infringed.FN4 A “seizure” of property occurs when there is some meaningful interference with an individual's possessory interests in that property.FN5 This Court has also consistently construed this protection as proscribing only governmental action; it is wholly inapplicable “to a search or seizure, even an unreasonable one, effected by a private individual not acting as an agent of the Government or with the participation or knowledge of any governmental official.
U.S. v. Jacobsen 466 U.S. 109, 113, 104 S.Ct. 1652, 1656 (U.S.Minn.,1984)
 

LatitudeClear

Junior Member
Detainment

Sorry I would have responded much sooner if I knew this post would get so many replies!


Antigone -

You should read the thread and not just it's title before making a comment. :cool:

Asiny -

The situation is diplomatic. I am a citizen of the United States. I must follow the laws which I do happily. And I expect other individuals to do the same. I even warned him.

Eraupike -

Those are good questions to ask. I used the Cashier and pulled the items up out of the basket - making it very obvious to any loss pervention personnel that they were paid for.

Everything in my cart had bags.

They absolutely have the right to ask me for a receipt which is why I was polite. However absolutely nobody has the right to physically grab me, or my possessions whether it is my cellphone, my shoes, my car, or my recently purchased items.

I am sorry that *people like me* create such embarrassment for you. The beauty of living in a Free Republic is that people will have different opinions of how the Government should function. My opinion is that the store should have to follow the same exact laws that I do.

I also run a small business on the side, repairing computers and other hardware. Before I started my business I read very carefully how I was supposed to operate and what laws to follow both federally and locally.

One last thing on this subject; I have a friend who is a security guard. He's told me that they made it very clear to him that he does not have the authority to detain.

It's common sense really.

LillianX - thank you for the clarification. I also have a Sam's Club membership and am aware of that contract. I don't always make a fuss about the receipt issue but the associate had a particularly bad attitude both when I entered and when I was on my way out. It also bothers me that when my wife is with me I never get asked but when I'm alone they will demand a receipt even if all I bought was a candy bar.

The occultist - No physically injury occurred. But are you sure it's such a large requirement for monetary compensation? If I stopped a old lady on the street, grabbed her wrist and purse. Dragged her across the street. Then said, "You stay right here until I can find out for sure if your the lady who stole my cat!" There is absolutely no way she couldn't tear me apart in court. Right?

justalayman - Tort law instead of Criminal. That's useful information to know! I'll look them up tomorrow. Another person saying compensation is unlikely. That's unfortunately. If I did this to another individual instead of being done to me by a big business - I know I would probably spend the night in jail with felony assault charges, and nobody would be calling it "frivolous". But that's the way of our world, I guess.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
justalayman - Tort law instead of Criminal. That's useful information to know! I'll look them up tomorrow. Another person saying compensation is unlikely. That's unfortunately. If I did this to another individual instead of being done to me by a big business - I know I would probably spend the night in jail with felony assault charges, and nobody would be calling it "frivolous". But that's the way of our world, I guess.
IF they had a reasonable belief you stole something, they do have the right to detain you. The problem; there was nothing, so far, suggesting they believed you had stolen something but merely refused to subject yourself to their unwarranted demand (it was no longer a request once they prevented you from leaving without showing the receipt).

as to compensation: the only possibility of compensation more than a couple bucks would be punitive damages. You would need to speak with a local attorney to determine if the courts in the area tend to refuse to apply such or if they are tired of stores reaching beyond their authority.
 

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