Is it legal for cops to "set-up" a crime, then waitfor it to happen?

[trustknow1]

What is the name of your state? Colorado

Hope this is the proper place to post this.

I saw an episode of "Cops" awhile back, and it has been bugging me ever since.

Basic scenario: Cops take a nice car into poor, high crime area after dark. They place an expensive computer (I think) in the front passenger seat with the window rolled down; and an expensive bicycle sticking out of the trunk.Both bike and computer were carefully selected to make sure the value of each surpassed the value threshold that would insure the charge would result in a felony. They parked the vehicle in an abandoned, unlighted parking lot that is next to a 7-11 mini-mart, and in direct line with the common short-cut taken by the locals going to and from the store.

Then the cops hide and wait for someone to walk by, see the opportunity, and take the bait by taking one of the items from the vehicle. Then they all jump out, arrest the suspect, and make sure to tell him how they made sure the items they planted in the car were expensive enough to be a felony.

It was like shooting fish in a barrel. My question(s) is this:

When does this procedure become entrapment (or other type of set-up)? Where is the line drawn? If you put a $100 dollar bill with some type of ID clipped to it on the sidewalk outside of a ghetto project housing building and wait for a starving occupant to pick it up, then arrest him. Is that legal?

No wonder nobody picks up dropped gloves or pennies in the supermarket parking lots anymore....lol You used to teach a young child how to return such things to the help desk inside to teach them honesty**************..now, you tell the child not to pick it up because it might be a trap....or a bomb....lol

 

[Some Random Guy]

I fail to see any connection between money or gloves lying abandoned on the ground and personal property sitting in a vehicle.

 

[Some Random Guy]

Here is an example for you.

In Saudi Arabia an american woman is visiting for a few months and goes out shopping for jewelry among other things. She is accompanied by her driver (who is a male relative in the family, this allowing them to be alone in the car together).

While at the next store after buying jewelry, she realizes that she left her purse at the jewelry store and frantically asks the driver to return there immediately and call the store to see if they can find the purse. The driver says no, lets finish our errands first, and they return to the store two hours later.

When she gets back to the checkout area she finds her purse laying exactly as she left it, along with her open wallet next to it with about a thousand dollars cash visible inside.

In two hours at a busy store, nobody touched it, not even to put her wallet back in her purse.

Of course, the penalty for stealing her purse would be having your hand cut off...

 

[BelizeBreeze]

What is the name of your state? Colorado

Hope this is the proper place to post this.

I saw an episode of "Cops" awhile back, and it has been bugging me ever since.

Basic scenario: Cops take a nice car into poor, high crime area after dark. They place an expensive computer (I think) in the front passenger seat with the window rolled down; and an expensive bicycle sticking out of the trunk.Both bike and computer were carefully selected to make sure the value of each surpassed the value threshold that would insure the charge would result in a felony. They parked the vehicle in an abandoned, unlighted parking lot that is next to a 7-11 mini-mart, and in direct line with the common short-cut taken by the locals going to and from the store.

Then the cops hide and wait for someone to walk by, see the opportunity, and take the bait by taking one of the items from the vehicle. Then they all jump out, arrest the suspect, and make sure to tell him how they made sure the items they planted in the car were expensive enough to be a felony.

It was like shooting fish in a barrel. My question(s) is this:

When does this procedure become entrapment (or other type of set-up)? Where is the line drawn? If you put a $100 dollar bill with some type of ID clipped to it on the sidewalk outside of a ghetto project housing building and wait for a starving occupant to pick it up, then arrest him. Is that legal?

No wonder nobody picks up dropped gloves or pennies in the supermarket parking lots anymore....lol You used to teach a young child how to return such things to the help desk inside to teach them honesty**************..now, you tell the child not to pick it up because it might be a trap....or a bomb....lol

The HONEST thing to have done would have been call the police to secure the vehicle.

 

[seniorjudge]

What is the name of your state? Colorado

Hope this is the proper place to post this.

I saw an episode of "Cops" awhile back, and it has been bugging me ever since.

Basic scenario: Cops take a nice car into poor, high crime area after dark. They place an expensive computer (I think) in the front passenger seat with the window rolled down; and an expensive bicycle sticking out of the trunk.Both bike and computer were carefully selected to make sure the value of each surpassed the value threshold that would insure the charge would result in a felony. They parked the vehicle in an abandoned, unlighted parking lot that is next to a 7-11 mini-mart, and in direct line with the common short-cut taken by the locals going to and from the store.

Then the cops hide and wait for someone to walk by, see the opportunity, and take the bait by taking one of the items from the vehicle. Then they all jump out, arrest the suspect, and make sure to tell him how they made sure the items they planted in the car were expensive enough to be a felony.

It was like shooting fish in a barrel. My question(s) is this:

When does this procedure become entrapment (or other type of set-up)? Where is the line drawn? If you put a $100 dollar bill with some type of ID clipped to it on the sidewalk outside of a ghetto project housing building and wait for a starving occupant to pick it up, then arrest him. Is that legal?

No wonder nobody picks up dropped gloves or pennies in the supermarket parking lots anymore....lol You used to teach a young child how to return such things to the help desk inside to teach them honesty**************..now, you tell the child not to pick it up because it might be a trap....or a bomb....lol

This is not even close to entrapment.

Think about it: beautiful naked woman lying on a mattress in the middle of a park. If she got raped, do you think the perp could claim entrapment?

 

[rmet4nzkx]

This is not even close to entrapment.

Think about it: beautiful naked woman lying on a mattress in the middle of a park. If she got raped, do you think the perp could claim entrapment?

The perp "could" claim anything, did I ever tell you that if you go to a city park in Paris on a Sunday afternoon it would not be unusual to see a naked woman sunbathing? In fact I was at another park in Paris and a couple was doing a "lap dance" in a chair under a tree, talk about a shady deal

 

[seniorjudge]

The perp "could" claim anything, did I ever tell you that if you go to a city park in Paris on a Sunday afternoon it would not be unusual to see a naked woman sunbathing? In fact I was at another park in Paris and a couple was doing a "lap dance" in a chair under a tree, talk about a shady deal

The strangest thing I ever saw in Paris was a guy in a car driving in his own lane of traffic!

 

[You Are Guilty]

This is not even close to entrapment.

Think about it: beautiful naked woman lying on a mattress in the middle of a park. If she got raped, do you think the perp could claim entrapment?

Well...

'Sexsomniac' beats rape rap in Canada

TORONTO - She said he raped her. He said he was asleep. And now, even though he somehow put on a condom, Jan Luedecke is a free man.

A judge in Scarborough, Ontario, bought Luedecke's unusual "sexsomnia" defense: bad behavior during sleep that, according to sleep expert Colin Shapiro, is brought on by alcohol, sleep deprivation and genetics.

The alleged victim in the case convulsed with tears after the ruling and women were completely stunned.

"This is infuriating. It's another case of the courts not taking a woman seriously," Suzanne Jay of the Canadian Association of Sexual Assault Centers told UPI. This adds "to the list of excuses which men use for sexual assault," she added.

Luedecke, 33, met the woman at a party in July 2003 and both were drinking heavily. She said she passed out on a couch and woke to find the man on top of her, having sex.

But Luedecke claims he, too, was asleep and woke only when she pushed him to the floor. Still, he confessed, he looked down and found he was wearing a condom.

"His conduct was not voluntary," Justice Russell Otter said.

The woman, who is not being named, said the case will set a terrible precedent.

"I believe the floodgates have been opened," she told the Toronto Sun, vowing to pursue her case "to the highest level."

 

[seniorjudge]

A judge in Scarborough, Ontario, bought Luedecke's unusual "sexsomnia" defense: bad behavior during sleep that, according to sleep expert Colin Shapiro, is brought on by alcohol, sleep deprivation and genetics.


Yeah...that's the ticket!

 

[rmet4nzkx]

Well...

There is always the famous "Cable Car Nymphomaniac." In 1970, a San Francisco woman was awarded $50,000 by a jury after she claimed, in a personal injury lawsuit, that a cable car crash had left her with a "demonic sex urge."

 

[trustknow1]

I fail to see any connection between money or gloves lying abandoned on the ground and personal property sitting in a vehicle.

You are right, I was just in a bit of a mental "drift" when I wrote that. Actually what I was really picturing after that episode of cops, was the same type of operation...only this time, they would have a wallet on the ground hooked to a fishing line, that they would slowly reel in from behind the bushes. lol.

Yes, Saudia Arabia and other countries have some pretty effective ways to deter crime. I was aware of that penalty, and I was led to believe the hand they cut off is the hand traditionally used as "toilet paper".

In college, I played tennis with a guy from Malaysia. He told me an arrest for marijuana could earn you the death penalty, if convicted.

 

[trustknow1]

That sexsomniac defense is a classic. lol

I do understand everybody's point about predisposition, stings to clean up, etc. It is the same as busting johns with undercover police posing as hookers (only that is more fun than the car scenario, lol).

Actually, I am probably an example myself. Met my ex at a "Mortons Steak House" one night. Three weeks later, took her to family condo in Florida for a week. A month later....I find out she was pregnant (from Florida).

I still remember that one night, when I asked her if she had protection (since I did not). Her answer was "do you feel lucky?" .....I guess I proved Curt581's predisposition point; and although I certainly fit the Colin Shapiro alcohol, sleep deprivation and genetic profile at the time...I was not asleep....(unfortunately). I did the crime, and am doing the time. That was 12 years ago and I still have a minimum of 7 more years to go on my 19 year "sentence".(dealing with my golddigging ex) (Three to four more added if my daughter stays in school).

So, I guess I really answered my own question. Although I proved later that it was a "set-up", it is irrelavant because I knew the "law".....I think that would be "Murphy's Law"....and I chose to do it anyway.....

So, here is what I learned from this thread with your help:

"Although she definitely did "en-trap-me" and willfully conspired to "entrap men", I could not legally claim Entrapment."

See, this forum really does help people!....lol.

Your posts were great...feel free to use this thread to post more!....

 

[rmet4nzkx]

That sexsomniac defense is a classic. lol

I do understand everybody's point about predisposition, stings to clean up, etc. It is the same as busting johns with undercover police posing as hookers (only that is more fun than the car scenario, lol).

Actually, I am probably an example myself. Met my ex at a "Mortons Steak House" one night. Three weeks later, took her to family condo in Florida for a week. A month later....I find out she was pregnant (from Florida).

I still remember that one night, when I asked her if she had protection (since I did not). Her answer was "do you feel lucky?" .....I guess I proved Curt581's predisposition point; and although I certainly fit the Colin Shapiro alcohol, sleep deprivation and genetic profile at the time...I was not asleep....(unfortunately). I did the crime, and am doing the time. That was 12 years ago and I still have a minimum of 7 more years to go on my 19 year "sentence".(dealing with my golddigging ex) (Three to four more added if my daughter stays in school).

So, I guess I really answered my own question. Although I proved later that it was a "set-up", it is irrelavant because I knew the "law".....I think that would be "Murphy's Law"....and I chose to do it anyway.....

So, here is what I learned from this thread with your help:

"Although she definitely did "en-trap-me" and willfully conspired to "entrap men", I could not legally claim Entrapment."

See, this forum really does help people!....lol.

Your posts were great...feel free to use this thread to post more!....

You weren't entrapped, you were in lust. You could have bought condoms before you took her to FL, what did you have in mind, collecitng seashells? I hope you have a relationship with your child and don't consider them a sentence.

 

[trustknow1]

You weren't entrapped, you were in lust. You could have bought condoms before you took her to FL, what did you have in mind, collecitng seashells? I hope you have a relationship with your child and don't consider them a sentence.

You are 100% correct, rmet4nzkx. I firmly believe that most of the turmoil we find in life is a result of some personal decision we made (or did not make), which produced the outcome. You can waste time blaming others, whining, justifying,seeking pity, playing "what if, only if" games etc.... or you can take responsibility for what happens, then start affecting the future instead of trying to change the past.

I was taken by a golddigger, but only because I let it happen. I was attempting to keep my "humor" about being tied to an emotionless money-pit of an ex (my fault, again)...

But my daughter was the best thing that ever happened to me. From the day she was born, I have been her pri**** and many times her ONLY..."emotional, physical, instructional, and financial" caretaker. In the process, I have been the target of, absorbed, cushioned and hidden most of the selfish actions that people have posted on these forums, by my selfish ex along the way. I chose to do my best to maintain my daughters image of her mom as being a hero, when in real life; the ex is just the opposite.

Now, at 12 years old, my daughter is discovering the truth on her own, which is inevitable. I take responsibility for making decisions which created the sacrifices I made and the injustices I chose to tolerate. For me, it is a small price to pay for my reward.....a solid,trusting, consistent, emotional & physical bond with my daughter.

So, regarding my daughter....she was my greatest gift, not a sentence....