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M.I.P. in Michigan

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KrakenPipe

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan.

I was put on 7411 probation (6 mo) back in July for use of marijuana. I was late once only like 10 minutes, but no failed drug tests. Last weekend I got an M.I.P. ticket, I had 2 beers, blew a .050. Currently my probation does not restrict my license at all, which is necessary seeing as I'm still in high school taking a zero hour AP class so the bus is not an option for me. Can I just get an extension on my probation like another 6 months and some community service or something? I've already taken one drug class that mostly dealt with marijuana but talked about drinking too. I cant afford to take another one. I haven't notified my P.O. yet as its Sunday and the office is closed. I was never read my Miranda rights as well. I never got put in cuffs just detained and PBT'd. He never told me I could refuse. I was extremely cooperative with the cop.
 


quincy

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Michigan.

I was put on 7411 probation (6 mo) back in July for use of marijuana. I was late once only like 10 minutes, but no failed drug tests. Last weekend I got an M.I.P. ticket, I had 2 beers, blew a .050. Currently my probation does not restrict my license at all, which is necessary seeing as I'm still in high school taking a zero hour AP class so the bus is not an option for me. Can I just get an extension on my probation like another 6 months and some community service or something? I've already taken one drug class that mostly dealt with marijuana but talked about drinking too. I cant afford to take another one. I haven't notified my P.O. yet as its Sunday and the office is closed. I was never read my Miranda rights as well. I never got put in cuffs just detained and PBT'd. He never told me I could refuse. I was extremely cooperative with the cop.
These are questions best asked of your attorney, KrakenPipe - and I recommend you consult with one.

If you were a pedestrian when stopped, you could have refused to take the breath test but, if you did not refuse to take the test or if you consented to it, the results can be used against you. For an MIP, however, there does not need to be proof that you drank alcohol - just that you were in possession of it.

Depending in large part on the county in which your latest offense occurred, and depending in some part on your particular probation officer, and depending on all other facts, your current probation could be revoked and you could find yourself with a misdemeanor conviction and potentially some jail time.

The "7411" you refer to is MCL 333.7411, which is Michigan's diversion program. This program allows for a first offense misdemeanor to be discharged and dismissed upon successful completion of the terms of the program (drug classes, random testing, community service hours, no repeat offenses). One of the conditions to eligibility for the program is that you plead guilty to whatever it was you were charged with. If the terms of the program are not met, then this guilty plea can be entered by the court and you wind up with a misdemeanor on your record.

This diversion program is only offered once. You will not be entitled to the benefits of this program with a second offense, your MIP charge.

The law does not look at whether you can "afford" to take another drug class or not, or whether any sentence is convenient for you. If a drug class or any community service hours are ordered, you take the drug class and you commit yourself to satisfying the community service requirement. If driving restrictions come with the conviction, you deal with it. And if the terms of the diversion program say no repeat offenses, you do not repeat.

Your user name suggests that perhaps you are not taking the drug and alcohol laws very seriously. You should be. A misdemeanor on your record will make it more difficult for you to find an employer willing to hire you or a college willing to accept you (regardless of how many AP classes you have successfully completed). College scholarships and loans for college may be hard to come by. Your insurance rates will go up (and they are, no doubt, high already). You can be barred from entering Canada and there may be other travel restrictions.

If you can avoid the misdemeanor on your first offense being entered by the court, your best chance of avoiding this conviction is to seek out the advice of an attorney in your area. You will want to have all of the facts surrounding your first offense and your latest offense personally reviewed, to see what options are available to you.

Good luck.
 
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KrakenPipe

Junior Member
Well, let me start off by saying thank you. To clarify further, I was a pedestrian at a party. I walked outside, nothing on my person and the cops had just gotten there due to a noise complaint. The cop asked me to come with him and I did, he asked me for ID, at which point he detained me. A few minutes later, he came up to the car and told me to take the PBT, he did not say I had the option to refuse. My rights were at no point read, though I'm not sure if they really applied in this circumstance.
So the questions I'm mainly looking for answers to are:
Was the fact that I was, for lack of a better word, forced to take a PBT unlawful?
And does it matter I was never read my rights?
And is it at least a possibility that I can ask my P.O. for an extension of the period of my probation maybe to 12 months and community service, and keep the 7411 status. (I'm more concerned about the marijuana charge than the MIP showing on my record).

Thank you for your help.

EDIT: Cannot afford an attorney. That is why I'm here.
 

TigerD

Senior Member
EDIT: Cannot afford an attorney. That is why I'm here.
Find the money - talk to the public defender's office, borrow the money.

Get an attorney with experience in breath testing. PBTs are notoriously inaccurate. There are a lot of factors that can weigh on the validity reading.

DC
 

quincy

Senior Member
Well, let me start off by saying thank you. To clarify further, I was a pedestrian at a party. I walked outside, nothing on my person and the cops had just gotten there due to a noise complaint. The cop asked me to come with him and I did, he asked me for ID, at which point he detained me. A few minutes later, he came up to the car and told me to take the PBT, he did not say I had the option to refuse. My rights were at no point read, though I'm not sure if they really applied in this circumstance.
So the questions I'm mainly looking for answers to are:
Was the fact that I was, for lack of a better word, forced to take a PBT unlawful?
And does it matter I was never read my rights?
And is it at least a possibility that I can ask my P.O. for an extension of the period of my probation maybe to 12 months and community service, and keep the 7411 status. (I'm more concerned about the marijuana charge than the MIP showing on my record).

Thank you for your help.

EDIT: Cannot afford an attorney. That is why I'm here.
Because you were a pedestrian and not in a car, the PBT could have been declined by you. The officer, however, did not have to say you had the option to decline it or read you your rights. You were not forced to take the PBT unless the officer insisted that you had no choice but to submit to it.

And, if you were at a party where there was alcohol and drinking by minors, the PBT does not even need to be considered for you to be convicted on the MIP charge. The MIP is charged for possession not consumption.

Because you violated the terms of your probation when you drank, the court has the option of entering your guilty plea on the marijuana offense, which will result in the misdemeanor on your criminal record. But this can all be dependent on what happens with your MIP (ie, if it can be dismissed for some reason).

You really cannot afford to be without an attorney, KrakenPipe, as even one misdemeanor will mess with your future and you are looking at the possibility of two. An attorney can help you work with your probation officer and the prosecutor to get you the best possible outcome (although given the facts of your situation, I am not real sure what this best outcome could be).

Perhaps you can borrow some money from your parents or check out legal aid clinics connected to any law school in your area of the state or call to check out attorney rates to see if you can stretch your own funds to pay the fee? There are some attorneys who offer "student discounts" (mostly when handling routine MIP charges) and there are some attorneys who will consider a payment plan to fit your budget.

Good luck.
 
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KrakenPipe

Junior Member
Because you violated the terms of your probation when you drank, the court has the option of entering your guilty plea on the marijuana offense, which will result in the misdemeanor on your criminal record. But this can all be dependent on what happens with your MIP (ie, if it can be dismissed for some reason).
Ok, very helpful. But, if I were able to get the MIP dismissed, would my probation still have been violated?
And if it were do you think my P.O. would go easier on me?

Thank you so much everyone.
 
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quincy

Senior Member
Ok, very helpful. But, if I were able to get the MIP dismissed, would my probation still have been violated?

Thank you so much everyone.
Would your probation have been violated if the MIP is dismissed? Technically, yes - if you did, in fact, drink or were in possession of alcohol.

If there is no evidence to support the MIP, or if this evidence can be overcome somehow, then the MIP will be dismissed and any action taken against you could depend on your probation officer, and then it would depend on the court. Some county courts are more willing to give young kids a break - some county courts are looking for ways to throw minors who violated the terms of their probation in jail.

In other words, there are a lot of "it depends" and some awfully big "ifs" here, KrakenPipe.

To get a better idea of what will happen with your MIP and with your marijuana misdemeanor and the diversion program you are currently in, an attorney's personal review of all facts would be necessary. The attorney will work to see if the PBT can be tossed, or perhaps the attorney can help show somehow that you were not in possession of alcohol at the time you were approached by the police officer, or perhaps you have a probation officer who is willing to work with your attorney and the prosecutor and the court so you will not have your probation revoked but extended instead, and prevent the marijuana misdemeanor from being entered.

I think you screwed up pretty badly, KrakenPipe. If this screw up can result in anywhere close to a positive outcome for you, an attorney's advice and direction is sort of vital. You will (more than likely) not be able to work miracles on your own.

Again, call some attorneys, call legal aid clinics in your area, ask your parents for money to help you afford legal representation. Good luck.
 

KrakenPipe

Junior Member
Alright I'll do what I can to get an attorney. In your opinion, should I call my P.O. as soon as possible, or wait until I speak to an attorney?
 

quincy

Senior Member
Alright I'll do what I can to get an attorney. In your opinion, should I call my P.O. as soon as possible, or wait until I speak to an attorney?
I think you should do BOTH as soon as possible but it is generally best to talk to an attorney first, this so you don't inadvertently say something to your probation officer that could work against you in court.

That said, probation officers really do not like to be the last to know about violations (and, depending on your Michigan location, there is a good chance your PO already knows of your MIP), so I really recommend you contact an attorney quickly so that you are able to contact your PO soon thereafter.

After speaking with the attorney, when you speak with your PO you will be armed with the advice and direction offered you by your attorney (or you could let your attorney speak for you).

Good luck.
 

KrakenPipe

Junior Member
I think you should do BOTH as soon as possible but it is generally best to talk to an attorney first, this so you don't inadvertently say something to your probation officer that could work against you in court.

That said, probation officers really do not like to be the last to know about violations (and, depending on your Michigan location, there is a good chance your PO already knows of your MIP), so I really recommend you contact an attorney quickly so that you are able to contact your PO soon thereafter.

After speaking with the attorney, when you speak with your PO you will be armed with the advice and direction offered you by your attorney (or you could let your attorney speak for you).

Good luck.
He could already know? It happened last saturday night/sunday morning. I definitely wont be able to get an attorney within the day, I was more talking about a free consultation or something of the sort. And west michigan area if that really helps.
 

quincy

Senior Member
He could already know? It happened last saturday night/sunday morning. I definitely wont be able to get an attorney within the day, I was more talking about a free consultation or something of the sort. And west michigan area if that really helps.
Oh. I certainly hope you aren't located in Ottawa County.

It is fine to get free consultations with several different attorneys, so that you can get a sense of what an attorney is like and learn more about his experience handling MIPs and find out the rates charged for services, but many people expect more legal advice in these free consultations than is actually offered. It tends to be pretty general information that is dispensed.

You really need to hire an attorney to get any advice that will help you with the particulars of your case.

If you are near a college or university (Western Michigan, Kalamazoo College. . . .?), you are more likely to find attorneys offering student discounts, but others may offer you a payment plan.

Good luck.
 

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