My business and loitering person

[slufferk]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California


Been a bit unhappy after dealing with some undercover police officers a few days ago and wanted to get some advice if I should file a complaint. First of all I own my own business, a medium sized restaurant in a small community. A few days ago one of our regulars named Paul, who happens to be homeless, was using one of our three single-occupant restrooms when I hear a commotion from that area. I go over to find two men kicking at the door and telling him to open the door because he's been in there "nearly ten minutes". I hear Paul say "I'm almost done." I ask what is going on and am told that "an old man wants to use this bathroom". The two men then tell me to go outside and get their buddy in the Game of Thrones Tshirt to come help them break the door down. I said no way, this is my business and no one will be breaking any doors down. One of the men then starts screaming at me about how I am allowing loitering in the bathroom. He pulls out a badge and says he is an undercover cop. Thinking Paul might have done something wrong I offer to unlock the door for them, but question why they didn't identify themselves to me in the first place and was told "we don't have to." So, I open he door and Paul is there with his bag and shave kit. The officers scream at him that he is loitering and must leave immediately. They tell him if he ever comes back the restaurant will press trespassing charges. Paul runs out crying before I can say anything to him. I tell the officers that I never made any such claim about Paul, who does buy things from our restaurant and has permission to wash his hair, brush his teeth, and shave as long as he cleans up after himself. The officers say they are on duty and have a right to police local businesses for loiters and that Paul is impeding customers being able to use the restroom. I ask them if Paul did something wrong prior and that's why they were concerned about him in the bathroom and they said they had never seen him before. I was shocked at the way they acted and and not sure if I should file a police report for their behavior or if I even have a case to file a complaint against them.

 

[justalayman]

I'm sorry but I quit reading when I read they threatened to trespass Paul as I am so incensed.

I don't care if Paul was sleeping in the corner, if he sat at a table all day long and drank or ate nothing; the police have no right to determine who is loitering on private property, even a business that is open to the public.

The officers say they are on duty and have a right to police local businesses for loiters and that Paul is impeding customers being able to use the restroom.

No, they don't. Not even close. They can respond to a complaint by the business owner/manager but it is not on the cops to make the call that somebody is loitering. It is up to you.

Paul needs to file a complaint for what happened to him and you can also file a complaint for them doing what they did. They went way beyond anything they have the authority to do.

 

[dave33]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California


Been a bit unhappy after dealing with some undercover police officers a few days ago and wanted to get some advice if I should file a complaint. First of all I own my own business, a medium sized restaurant in a small community. A few days ago one of our regulars named Paul, who happens to be homeless, was using one of our three single-occupant restrooms when I hear a commotion from that area. I go over to find two men kicking at the door and telling him to open the door because he's been in there "nearly ten minutes". I hear Paul say "I'm almost done." I ask what is going on and am told that "an old man wants to use this bathroom". The two men then tell me to go outside and get their buddy in the Game of Thrones Tshirt to come help them break the door down. I said no way, this is my business and no one will be breaking any doors down. One of the men then starts screaming at me about how I am allowing loitering in the bathroom. He pulls out a badge and says he is an undercover cop. Thinking Paul might have done something wrong I offer to unlock the door for them, but question why they didn't identify themselves to me in the first place and was told "we don't have to." So, I open he door and Paul is there with his bag and shave kit. The officers scream at him that he is loitering and must leave immediately. They tell him if he ever comes back the restaurant will press trespassing charges. Paul runs out crying before I can say anything to him. I tell the officers that I never made any such claim about Paul, who does buy things from our restaurant and has permission to wash his hair, brush his teeth, and shave as long as he cleans up after himself. The officers say they are on duty and have a right to police local businesses for loiters and that Paul is impeding customers being able to use the restroom. I ask them if Paul did something wrong prior and that's why they were concerned about him in the bathroom and they said they had never seen him before. I was shocked at the way they acted and and not sure if I should file a police report for their behavior or if I even have a case to file a complaint against them.

Sure, if you feel the officers wrongly than file a complaint. You may also want to tell them that they are no longer allowed in your restaurant.

 

[STEPHAN]

I agree to the other replies.

I also wanted to thank you for how you treat Paul and that you stand up for him. He does not harm anybody and there might be a time in everybody's life, where one needs a little help from others.

 

[Mt_Vernon]

Given that this is California, you'd better make sure that the laws do not indeed give the police the right to monitor businesses. California is not a state that values people's rights.

 

[justalayman]

Given that this is California, you'd better make sure that the laws do not indeed give the police the right to monitor businesses. California is not a state that values people's rights.

they can monitor a business but they cannot unilaterally override the rights of the business owner that allows a person to be on their premises unless there is some other activity involved.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=653.20-653.28
from cal penal code 653.20

(c) "Loiter" means to delay or linger without a lawful purpose for
being on the property and for the purpose of committing a crime as
opportunity may be discovered.

from cal penal code 647

(d) Who loiters in or about any toilet open to the public for the purpose of engaging in or soliciting any lewd or lascivious or any unlawful act.

(h) Who loiters, prowls, or wanders upon the private property of another, at any time, without visible or lawful business with the owner or occupant. As used in this subdivision, "loiter" means to delay or linger without a lawful purpose for being on the property and for the purpose of committing a crime as opportunity may be discovered.
(i) Who, while loitering, prowling, or wandering upon the private property of another, at any time, peeks in the door or window of any inhabited building or structure, without visible or lawful business with the owner or occupant.

based on what was said, there was nothing to suggest any criminal activity. The presence was with permission of the owner of the establishment. Unless there is more, the cops were way out of line.