No Auto Title, then blown motor.

[CurlyJoe]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NC
My YOUNG son thought he was old enough to buy a car on his own and learned an important lesson. But I think the prosecutor has missed a few things?
My son gave someone $1,200.00 for a used P/U, it was pretty beat but ran. The boy says he has to go and get the title from the bank and left the P/U at my sons place. In the meantime he comes and uses the truck(no permission given my son was at work, we have his landlord who witnessed him taking it and called my son at work and said no he knew nothing of him taking the truck), a tow truck returns it that afternoon with a blown motor. My son still has never received title, we now find out from the prosecutor it was in his dad's name with a payday loan has never been paid off and this took place months ago.
So he goes to the sheriffs office and they charge the kid with OBTAIN PROPERTY FALSE PRETENSE (the money I figure).
We go to court and the prosecutor says he was charged wrong and changed it to no delivering of a title, I have never heard of this charge before.
The prosecutor dropped the stolen car charge said it was an over reach, then says the JUDGE will never order restitution in such a case because the vehicle is legally my sons ?!? with no title ever exchanging.
He took the vehicle without permission, what gives? He took 1200 dollars and delivered no title. He said the only way to get the money back would be a civil lawsuit!
What had happened to the criminal justice system where stealing is just OK. Can we have the taking the vehicle charge reinstated some how? Can we ask the Judge for restitution when he goes to court for the no title charge?
We need some direction this just seems far fetched!

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

You cannot steal something titled in your (dads) name. The title was never conveyed legally. Shall we also charge people based on their thoughts? Most men in the country would be in prison!!! Now we are left with your son still in possession of the truck, but it having a blown motor. Your son has the truck. The issue is the blown engine and title which are civil matters.

 

[Just Blue]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NC
My YOUNG son thought he was old enough to buy a car on his own and learned an important lesson. But I think the prosecutor has missed a few things?
My son gave someone $1,200.00 for a used P/U, it was pretty beat but ran. The boy says he has to go and get the title from the bank and left the P/U at my sons place. In the meantime he comes and uses the truck(no permission given my son was at work, we have his landlord who witnessed him taking it and called my son at work and said no he knew nothing of him taking the truck), a tow truck returns it that afternoon with a blown motor. My son still has never received title, we now find out from the prosecutor it was in his dad's name with a payday loan has never been paid off and this took place months ago.
So he goes to the sheriffs office and they charge the kid with OBTAIN PROPERTY FALSE PRETENSE (the money I figure).
We go to court and the prosecutor says he was charged wrong and changed it to no delivering of a title, I have never heard of this charge before.
The prosecutor dropped the stolen car charge said it was an over reach, then says the JUDGE will never order restitution in such a case because the vehicle is legally my sons ?!? with no title ever exchanging.
He took the vehicle without permission, what gives? He took 1200 dollars and delivered no title. He said the only way to get the money back would be a civil lawsuit!
What had happened to the criminal justice system where stealing is just OK. Can we have the taking the vehicle charge reinstated some how? Can we ask the Judge for restitution when he goes to court for the no title charge?
We need some direction this just seems far fetched!

How old is "young son"? Under 18 or 18+?

 

[Zigner]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? NC
My YOUNG son thought he was old enough to buy a car on his own and learned an important lesson. But I think the prosecutor has missed a few things?
My son gave someone $1,200.00 for a used P/U, it was pretty beat but ran. The boy says he has to go and get the title from the bank and left the P/U at my sons place. In the meantime he comes and uses the truck(no permission given my son was at work, we have his landlord who witnessed him taking it and called my son at work and said no he knew nothing of him taking the truck), a tow truck returns it that afternoon with a blown motor. My son still has never received title, we now find out from the prosecutor it was in his dad's name with a payday loan has never been paid off and this took place months ago.
So he goes to the sheriffs office and they charge the kid with OBTAIN PROPERTY FALSE PRETENSE (the money I figure).
We go to court and the prosecutor says he was charged wrong and changed it to no delivering of a title, I have never heard of this charge before.
The prosecutor dropped the stolen car charge said it was an over reach, then says the JUDGE will never order restitution in such a case because the vehicle is legally my sons ?!? with no title ever exchanging.
He took the vehicle without permission, what gives? He took 1200 dollars and delivered no title. He said the only way to get the money back would be a civil lawsuit!
What had happened to the criminal justice system where stealing is just OK. Can we have the taking the vehicle charge reinstated some how? Can we ask the Judge for restitution when he goes to court for the no title charge?
We need some direction this just seems far fetched!

The prosecutor gave you some pretty clear cut "direction." File a case in small claims court to recover the $1,200.00.

 

[justalayman]

Blue meanies question is extremely important here.

 

[CurlyJoe]

Blue meanies question is extremely important here.

He had just turned 18 so he was old enough to know better. but!

justalayman
Thanks to the research and info provided by the prosecutor it would be a waste of time, money and energy, the family including the father it seems has been doing this sort of things their entire life across several states.

OHRoadwarrior
Was just looking for advise is all. Who said anything about thought and prosecuting for thoughts.
IF as the you and the prosecutor say it's now my sons truck why can't he be charged with theft, he took the truck without permission after taking money and obviously had a set of keys.
Also the truck is not my sons (it can not be registered) and he tried to explain this to the prosecutor as I said originally it is in his fathers name who turned the title over to one of these payday loan stores so in my opinion he has a truck that is not his but the PDL store.
Isn't it illegal to sell something that's not yours?
Isn't it illegal to TAKE something that's not yours without permission?

Thanks all for the opinions and advice just there was more broking laws here was all but I figure taking a vehicle that is not yours and selling auto's that are not yours is just dandy is all.

PS
It was the prosecutor who informed us the truck although registered in the dad's name the title belongs to the payday loan company. Yet says it's my son's truck. Oh well.

 

[Zigner]

He had just turned 18 so he was old enough to know better. but!

justalayman
Thanks to the research and info provided by the prosecutor it would be a waste of time, money and energy, the family including the father it seems has been doing this sort of things their entire life across several states.

OHRoadwarrior
Was just looking for advise is all. Who said anything about thought and prosecuting for thoughts.
IF as the you and the prosecutor say it's now my sons truck why can't he be charged with theft, he took the truck without permission after taking money and obviously had a set of keys.
Also the truck is not my sons (it can not be registered) and he tried to explain this to the prosecutor as I said originally it is in his fathers name who turned the title over to one of these payday loan stores so in my opinion he has a truck that is not his but the PDL store.
Isn't it illegal to sell something that's not yours?
Isn't it illegal to TAKE something that's not yours without permission?

Thanks all for the opinions and advice just there was more broking laws here was all but I figure taking a vehicle that is not yours and selling auto's that are not yours is just dandy is all.

PS
It was the prosecutor who informed us the truck although registered in the dad's name the title belongs to the payday loan company. Yet says it's my son's truck. Oh well.

The problem your son has is that he is dealing with "shades" of ownership. The person on the title owns the truck. The loan company has a lien on the truck, meaning they need to be paid before ownership can be transferred. Your son "owns" the truck in that the owner of the track has sold the truck to him (ie: he didn't steal it). Now, in order to complete the transaction, the owner (on the title) will need to pay off the lien so that the lien ca be released and the title transferred. Your son will need to file a civil suit to either force the other party to complete the transaction, or to reverse the deal and have his money refunded.

This is not a criminal matter.

 

[justalayman]

There are several acts that could be considered criminal but unless the prosecutor chooses to prosecute them, there is nothing you can do about them. Your son is relegated to suing the person he paid money to for the return of the money since that person cannot convey clear title to your son. The"borrowing" of the truck and blown motor are non-issues at the moment. None of that actually matters since they cannot even provide title to the truck.

 

[CurlyJoe]

The problem your son has is that he is dealing with "shades" of ownership. The person on the title owns the truck. The loan company has a lien on the truck, meaning they need to be paid before ownership can be transferred. Your son "owns" the truck in that the owner of the track has sold the truck to him (ie: he didn't steal it). Now, in order to complete the transaction, the owner (on the title) will need to pay off the lien so that the lien ca be released and the title transferred. Your son will need to file a civil suit to either force the other party to complete the transaction, or to reverse the deal and have his money refunded.

This is not a criminal matter.

It's more frustration then anything else. WE as a FAMILY are trusting folk and Unfortunately my son learned that from me. Sad to say isn't it?
What you say is correct about "shades" of ownership, he has a truck but can't reg. it if it ran anyway without title and these folk sure aren't going to pay it off now they took the money and ran. I'm sure eventually the Payday loan company will find it and repo it anyway leaving my son with nothing anyhow.
Well he learned a hard lesson about life is what I told him.
Thank ya'll for the thoughts and info. I'll let you know what happens when this clown goes to court for the non transfer of title or some charge like that.

 

[justalayman]

Your son needs to sue in court for his money back. Since the seller cannot transfer clear title to your son, the sale cannot be completed and the seller must return the money.

 

[CurlyJoe]

Your son needs to sue in court for his money back. Since the seller cannot transfer clear title to your son, the sale cannot be completed and the seller must return the money.

We talked about it, maybe him doing it himself. I was a business owner for years and winning in court is the easy part, getting your money is the hard part especially from a family of deadbeats.
Has anyone ever heard of such a charge, non transfer of title. I googled it in NC and couldn't find anything and as of yesterday it still isn't on the county court docket, it says it takes a while to show up so I can get the statue#.

 

[CurlyJoe]

update

Talked to son last night he said he got an email from the court and they reinstated one of the original charges of OBTAIN PROPERTY FALSE PRETENSE, this is one of the charges the prosecutor had dropped. it said nothing about a charge of not transferring a title.
Also the truck was picked up by a local garage and when the landlord asked who they were they just gave her a number to call and it was a repo service so it now sits behind a gate at a garage. I hope since everyone says this is sort of my son's truck he doesn't get stuck with a storage bill or paying off this loan!?!?!? The only way I think they could of found the truck is if these clowns told the bank that they sold it to my son and gave his address.
I have talked to a few friends and they said it's not out of the reach of possibilities that a judge could order restitution. We'll see.

 

[justalayman]

Your son can speak with the prosecutor to see s/he would include restitution if the party is found guilty. Otherwise, your son's rights would be to sue in civil court.

 

[CurlyJoe]

Your son can speak with the prosecutor to see s/he would include restitution if the party is found guilty. Otherwise, your son's rights would be to sue in civil court.

Thank you for all the info.
Since everyone says my son sort of owns this truck is it possible the garage can come after him for storage fees, or the payday loan company can come after him for the money owned on the truck?
My son is a simple hard working kid and he if told to will pay the bills if they come to him. He is very naive when it comes to life, he thinks everyone is kind and would never do that.

 

[justalayman]

While there is an argument your son has some claim to ownership, the problem is there are others with a superior claim to title and they appear to be exercising their rights. Due to that, your son would have an arguable position of no liability for any charges incurred for the towing and or storage.