NY- Search of Auto at Police Station

[Dadfights]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York City

I have a question regarding the legal search of a car once some one is arrested, can the police in NYC search a car if they find a knife in plain view? and once arrested can they search it again at the station house holding the car for safe keeping but take most of the property out of the car and leaving some? they car was never going to the pound was at the station house for over a week!

just simple what right with out a warrant does law enforcement have to search a car at a station house or in the street?

also to be a little clear the knife found is considered a Bowie legal to posse in NYC and NYC carry laws 10:133 state the knife is ok for transport to and from and not in public view officer is calling it a dagger. And yes its single edge

Thank you for your time.

 

[FlyingRon]

If the driver is arrested and the car is impounded, they can make a cursory inventory of the contents. They aren't even conducting a search if the item is in plain view.

Is there something that was discovered subsequent to them taking the car other than the knife? Are they charging you over the knife.

Sounds like you need a lawyer not only for whatever the original arrests are but to examine what exactly the subsequent search (if any) that was conducted and whether anything found should be subsequently excluded.

There's nothing you've said so far that indicates anything improper in any way (not saying it couldn't be).

Further, I'm not convinced your carriage of the knife was legal. What legitimate purpose of carrying a large knife in public are you going to assert (such are very narrow). There's no issue with it being single edged or what the officer wants to call it. A 4"+ blade bowie knife is certainly illegal. It doesn't need to fall into the definition of "dangerous knifes" (switchblades, daggers,...) to be illegal under the NYC statute.

 

[HighwayMan]

How long was the blade of this knife that was in plain view?

 

[HighwayMan]

also to be a little clear the knife found is considered a Bowie legal to posse in NYC and NYC carry laws 10:133 state the knife is ok for transport to and from and not in public view officer is calling it a dagger. And yes its single edge

I'm not convinced it's legal. What have you been charged with?

 

[CdwJava]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York City

I have a question regarding the legal search of a car once some one is arrested, can the police in NYC search a car if they find a knife in plain view? and once arrested can they search it again at the station house holding the car for safe keeping but take most of the property out of the car and leaving some? they car was never going to the pound was at the station house for over a week!

Was the car TOWED to the station house?

If the vehicle is stored/impounded by the police as a result of an arrest and a written or unwritten policy/practice, than they can do an inventory (search) of the vehicle and its contents.

If it was NOT impounded, then their search might be limited. It would depend on the status of NY law, but if they see an illegal item inside that is usually sufficient to justify a search of the vehicle or at least the area near the contraband item.

If there was an illegal search, the defendant's attorney can move to suppress the search. If not evidence was discovered and there is nothing to suppress, unless NY allows for statutory damages for a knowing and intentionally unlawful search, it might be prohibitively expensive to sue when there are no appreciable damages.

 

[Dadfights]

Was the car TOWED to the station house?

If the vehicle is stored/impounded by the police as a result of an arrest and a written or unwritten policy/practice, than they can do an inventory (search) of the vehicle and its contents.

If it was NOT impounded, then their search might be limited. It would depend on the status of NY law, but if they see an illegal item inside that is usually sufficient to justify a search of the vehicle or at least the area near the contraband item.

If there was an illegal search, the defendant's attorney can move to suppress the search. If not evidence was discovered and there is nothing to suppress, unless NY allows for statutory damages for a knowing and intentionally unlawful search, it might be prohibitively expensive to sue when there are no appreciable damages.

Knife was in arm rest officer is saying was in plain view and it is a 5" knife illegal to carry in public view it is considered a hunting knife which are legal in NY but not to walk around with you can by law transport to and from a location as defined by carry law Hunting, camping, work ect. Officer is trying to consider it a dagger to justify the search which would make it a double edge knife to which it is not.

Car was not towed or impounded an officer drove it to the station and as I understand it they should not have taken an inventory of anything in the car since it was being kept for safe keeping not evidence of any crime. and if it was to go to the pound then they are allowed to inventory items in plain view only unless I am in correct if so please explain.

Again thank you for your time.

 

[CdwJava]

A vehicle seized by the police even for safekeeping IS subject to an inventory (search).

What specific code section was he charged with violating? (Note that the definition of a dagger does not always mean that it has to be double edged ... case law tends to refine these things to include items that may not otherwise be a "dagger" as used in the common term. I can't find this definition in the NY Penal; law, so it would help to know the code section under which he has been charged.)

Another thought ... how old is your son? And, was he on school grounds anywhere when observed or contacted?

His attorney will know if there is a chance to suppress the seizure of the knife.

 

[my_wan]

Unfortunately, as far as NY law is concerned, any knife for which the primary purpose is a weapon is illegal. This includes a Bowie knife.

[P.L. 265.15 (4)]: "The possession by any person of any dagger, dirk, stilleto, dangerous knife or any other weapon, instrument, appliance or substance designed, made, or adapted for use primarily as a weapon, is presumptive evidence of intent to use the same unlawfully against another".

You can argue a lack of intent to use the knife unlawfully against another, and this might work if there is no previous criminal convictions. The law gives the cops this presumptive evidence, so the cop did nothing wrong. As to whether you will actually be found guilty depends on a lot more details than given. In fact, it could even become a felony with prior convictions.

Another tact that can be used to argue it's not a "dangerous" weapon is "circumstances the possession". If you are repairing wiring in the vehicle, installing a radio, or using it in some other utilitarian manner associated with the vehicle, you could have a valid defense. Again, any other prior convictions will likely screw you.

Furthermore, the only way transport is OK is if hunting, trapping, fishing or similar justifiable use with a valid license to do so. So the transport defense will not work by itself.

Yes, they can search the car on the basis of a knife in plain view. The law explicitly gives them the presumption that it's there to be used to commit a crime against someone else. This presumption doesn't mean a conviction, but it does place the burden on you to defend yourself. Rather than on them as is normal rule of law. I really really despise laws that shift the burden of proof, but more and more that's what they do.

If there are demonstrable modifications or repairs to the car, that the knife was a reasonable tool in performing, that can effectively shift the presumption in your favor. It does not make the arrest or charge invalid, but it can help a lot to prevent a conviction. Again, if there are prior criminal convictions, of any type, there's probably not much you can do, and they can even turn it into a felony.

 

[FlyingRon]

Unfortunately, as far as NY law is concerned, any knife for which the primary purpose is a weapon is illegal. This includes a Bowie knife.

That's the STATE law and one can argue if a Bowie knife is or is not covered in this case.

There however is also a NY CITY law that bans carrying large knives in public with much greater restriction. Having such in your car and readily accessible meets the definition in the law. It doesn't need to even arise to the dangerous knife/weapon description that drives the state statute.

 

[HighwayMan]

Car was not towed or impounded an officer drove it to the station and as I understand it they should not have taken an inventory of anything in the car since it was being kept for safe keeping not evidence of any crime. and if it was to go to the pound then they are allowed to inventory items in plain view only unless I am in correct if so please explain.

That's all wrong. It doesn't matter how the car is transported. It is still subject to inventory search.

If it went to the pound it would also be searched - NOT just items in plain view.

Again - WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN CHARGED WITH?

 

[my_wan]

That's the STATE law and one can argue if a Bowie knife is or is not covered in this case.

There however is also a NY CITY law that bans carrying large knives in public with much greater restriction. Having such in your car and readily accessible meets the definition in the law. It doesn't need to even arise to the dangerous knife/weapon description that drives the state statute.

§ 10-133 city administrative code, given by the OP, can be found here:

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS+&QUERYDATA=$$ADC10-133$$@TXADC010-133

b. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry on his or her person or have in such person's possession, in any public place, street, or park any knife which has a blade length of four inches or more.

c. It shall be unlawful for any person in a public place, street or park, to wear outside of his or her clothing or carry in open view any knife with an exposed or unexposed blade unless such person is actually using such knife for a lawful purpose as set forth in subdivision d of this section.

Only subdivision c makes reference to subdivision d, with respect to exemptions, but subdivision d makes it plain that subdivision d applies to both b and c.

d. The provisions of subdivisions b and c of this section shall not apply to [...]

The OPs argument that a 5" blade is illegal when carried in the open isn't valid due to subdivision b. The same subdivision moots the argument over whether bowie type or whatever. The only clear exemption I see is subdivision d (6)(a).

(6)(a) is being used for or transported immediately to or from a place where it is used for hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, picnicking or any employment, trade or occupation customarily requiring the use of such knife;

It could be argued, but may or may not be granted, that these exemptions fall under lawful uses, as defined under state law. The most difficult aspect of this exemption is "transported immediately to or from".

Without knowing the condition and purpose of the arrest, or circumstances of the defendant, it is unlikely the defendant will walk. If the defendant has a clean record with gainful employment and presents themselves in a clean articulate manner to the court they are likely to walk. This is one of those cases where the perception of class membership can make all the difference.

 

[dave33]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York City

I have a question regarding the legal search of a car once some one is arrested, can the police in NYC search a car if they find a knife in plain view? and once arrested can they search it again at the station house holding the car for safe keeping but take most of the property out of the car and leaving some? they car was never going to the pound was at the station house for over a week!

just simple what right with out a warrant does law enforcement have to search a car at a station house or in the street?

also to be a little clear the knife found is considered a Bowie legal to posse in NYC and NYC carry laws 10:133 state the knife is ok for transport to and from and not in public view officer is calling it a dagger. And yes its single edge

Thank you for your time.

There are a couple of things that do not make sense. I have never heard of the policebringing the car to the station for safe keeping as a courtesy. t sounds like an investigation and they wanted to conduct a detailed search. A example would be if an officer said they smelled a strong odor of marijuana but did not find any. Another example would be if they thought te vehicle was involved in some sort of crime. A hit and run or something along those lines.
The original search of the car would seem legal to me. The officer saw the object (knife) in plain sight and conducted a search. Sounds like rock solid probable cause. I understand t was determined to be legal, but the police have a lot of experience obtaining probable cause.
A week sounds excessive, have you tried to get your car earlier?

The bottom line is that if the officer fills out the paper work correctly, they can do almost anything within reason.goodluck.