Officer failure to appear by subpoena

[Urbansound]

What is the name of your state? Michigan

Hi,

I stood pro per in my motion to terminate PPO with an affirmative defense that pivoted around my wife's child neglect and CPS actions when an officer had to remove a parolee from my home.

I subpoenad the officer that helped me, but he failed to appear. The sheriff's office gave me the first name of Brian, when it was actually Ryan and the supbpoena was servied to the police department clerk, officer off duty until the time of hearing.

The judge noted the absence of the officer at the commencment of the hearing that the officer's absence affected the defense considerably. Was there procedural cause for the judge to have advised or acted on the court's desire to have witnesses present, when subpoena is issued?

Are there any remedies that can be sought based upon the failure to appear? There are other issues that will drive an appeal.

Thank you.

Mike

 

[seniorjudge]

Was there procedural cause for the judge to have advised or acted on the court's desire to have witnesses present, when subpoena is issued?


I really don't know what that question is asking, but (from your facts) you have not, in truth, subpoenaed the correct person. Once you do that, the thing should be re-set.

 

[CdwJava]

I stood pro per in my motion to terminate PPO with an affirmative defense that pivoted around my wife's child neglect and CPS actions when an officer had to remove a parolee from my home.

I subpoenad the officer that helped me, but he failed to appear. The sheriff's office gave me the first name of Brian, when it was actually Ryan and the supbpoena was servied to the police department clerk, officer off duty until the time of hearing.

I fail to see how a parolee being removed from your ex's home would be cause to vacate a protective order issued against YOU?!

Even if the officer showed, how do his observations vis-a-vis your ex have anything to do with your actions which apparently resulted in the protective order in the first place?

- Carl

 

[chris86]

Sounds like a job for a guardian ad litem, not for a police officer...

 

[Urbansound]

This was the question

I fail to see how a parolee being removed from your ex's home would be cause to vacate a protective order issued against YOU?!
- Carl

This was the question... The judge noted the absence of the officer at the commencment of the hearing that the officer's absence affected the defense considerably. Was there procedural cause for the judge to have advised or acted on the court's desire to have witnhoesses present, when subpoena is issued?

There is an on going CPS investigation on my ex, who is mentally ill for years. She invites 4 homeless strangers into the home, pushes me out at the risk of harm, police advise I stay away, trumped up PPO.

This was a motion to terminate ppo, based upon an affirmative defense, where the officer was coroborating testimony with the CPS worker, that wife is reckless, endangering step son. Loss of officer, meant that I could not soundly establish wife's unreliability, as CPS cannot report yet, on an on-going with any detail.

Thanx for your questions, does that help you afford an answer?

- Mike

 

[CdwJava]

This was the question... The judge noted the absence of the officer at the commencment of the hearing that the officer's absence affected the defense considerably. Was there procedural cause for the judge to have advised or acted on the court's desire to have witnhoesses present, when subpoena is issued?

What would you have wanted the judge to do? A continuance to permit you to subpoena the officer properly would be the best he could do.

And again, I don't see how her having thugs and dirtbags over to her place in any way proves that you are not deserving of a PPO. Maybe you are abusive as well?

There is an on going CPS investigation on my ex, who is mentally ill for years. She invites 4 homeless strangers into the home, pushes me out at the risk of harm, police advise I stay away, trumped up PPO.

Is this the initial hearing on the PPO? Or is this a subsequent hearing to challenge an already existing "permanent" (three years in my state) order?

This was a motion to terminate ppo, based upon an affirmative defense, where the officer was coroborating testimony with the CPS worker, that wife is reckless, endangering step son. Loss of officer, meant that I could not soundly establish wife's unreliability, as CPS cannot report yet, on an on-going with any detail.

So ... your argument is that she lied in her affidavit? Is there any other supporting info contained in that document? Say ... witness statements, police reports, etc.?

Again, if your case got a continuance, you got the best that can be hoped for. If he ruled against you, maybe you can appeal. Check with an attorney.

What were you expecting the judge to do? Issue an arrest warrant for the errant officer?

I'm not clear on what happened here ... did the judge rule or continue the matter? if he ruled, what was his decision? I suspect he upheld the petition for the PPO, correct?

Frankly, EVERYONE who contests these claims the other party is lying. Invariably men claim the woman was a certifiable loon, and women claim the man was abusive, and both claim the other is a drug addict or alcoholic. The problem is that these kinds of claim and counter claim games go on all the time and the courts get rather weary of hearing them. If your defense was forestalled by an erroneous subpoena service then you should try to schedule another hearing to contest the order. However, I would suggest hiring an attorney to do it this time. It is my experience that most people that do this sort of stuff pro per tend to get shafted.

- Carl

 

[Urbansound]

Back to Seniorjudge...

Was there procedural cause for the judge to have advised or acted on the court's desire to have witnesses present?

I really don't know what that question is asking, but (from your facts) you have not, in truth, subpoenaed the correct person. Once you do that, the thing should be re-set.

I'm sorry. Let me try to improve on my communication skills...

iow, Any court rules for latitude of pro per, that judge might say "Respondent, the court recognizes your subpoena, motion to adjourn and seek your witness for a later date? (probably not)

iow, What good is proof of service?

i.e. the "Received on behalf of" recipient acknowledged she knew who the officer was. Is that not adequate service for a department with 2 dozen officers, address identified? Is the intent and manner of service not adequate? Serving party was present and identified.

iow, What law governs a witness given a subpoena, as to the judge's or respondent's actions to remedy the absent party not being there, hense diminished defense?

Does that help? By "reset", do you mean motion to "re-hear" a hearing to terminate a PPO, or does that mean appeal is the only recourse?

My fault, for faulty information.

The judge did work hard on my behalf in several areas, seeing that there were witnesses repeating a coached claim upon me, and identified with wife's immoral behaviours. infidelity, mental illness, cps, etc. I got the distinct feeling he was most displeased to have to rule against me, just after he tore the wife a new one on the public record. ;-)

Thank you still,

Mike

 

[CdwJava]

i.e. the "Received on behalf of" recipient acknowledged she knew who the officer was. Is that not adequate service for a department with 2 dozen officers, address identified? Is the intent and manner of service not adequate? Serving party was present and identified.

It depends on state law. In some places it might be adequate - in others it might not be. It certainly wouldn't be sufficient to have the officer arrested for failing to appear on the subpoena. It might be sufficient to permit you a civil action against the agency that received the subpoena or to request a continuance to effect proper service.

iow, What law governs a witness given a subpoena, as to the judge's or respondent's actions to remedy the absent party not being there, hense diminished defense?

Hence the need for an attorney. I don't know. And, apparently, neither do you. and without the proper form and format you will have no remedy.

Does that help? By "reset", do you mean motion to "re-hear" a hearing to terminate a PPO, or does that mean appeal is the only recourse?

If the case was continued you would get a new bite at the apple. If the judge made his decision and enacted the PPO then I suspect an appeal would be required. Again, the procedure for what to do and how to do it may vary by state. I know in my state there are ways to bring the matter back before a judge but I honestly couldn't say what that process might be.

The judge did work hard on my behalf in several areas, seeing that there were witnesses repeating a coached claim upon me, and identified with wife's immoral behaviours. infidelity, mental illness, cps, etc. I got the distinct feeling he was most displeased to have to rule against me, just after he tore the wife a new one on the public record. ;-)

Unfortunately, it seems that he had no choice but to rule against you. You might have a cause for a civil action against the police department if the order was lawfully and validly served per your state law.

If the wrong name was on the subpoena, then it was almost certainly improperly served. Plus, there may be a requirement for you to place a retainer for the officer's time in a non-criminal subpoena. In my state you would have had to put up cash (well, cashier's check) of $250 (I believe ... the info is at my office) along with the subpoena for an officer to be lawfully served for a non-criminal matter. The money would be to compensate the agency for the officer's time, with the balance refunded to you.

- Carl

 

[Urbansound]

What would you have wanted the judge to do? A continuance to permit you to subpoena the officer properly would be the best he could do.

.

True, he did nothing but acknowledge the officer absent and this officer is well known to be a straight-away guy, with a lot of experience.

The judge did not offer a continence, he had to rule against me on trumped up testimonies, but look at other posts here, he was clearly unhappy to do so.

And again, I don't see how her having thugs and dirtbags over to her place in any way proves that you are not deserving of a PPO. Maybe you are abusive as well?

A great deal of my evidence and tie-in was based upon this cop removing thugs per CPS requirements wife refused to follow = child endangerment, but without the cop and his testimony, much corroboration was lost and the tie-up with CPS. This is an "Affirmative" defense to her causation, forcing me from my home, infidelity and so on. Hard to fight three liars all swearing to the other's testimony like a tape recorder.

Is this the initial hearing on the PPO? Or is this a subsequent hearing to challenge an already existing "permanent" (three years in my state) order?

This was motion to terminate civil PPO, Michigan law.

So ... your argument is that she lied in her affidavit? Is there any other supporting info contained in that document? Say ... witness statements, police reports, etc.?

She had zip for supporting information, to my 236 pages of police reports, phone records, eye witnesses, chronological time line, child abandonment, abuse corroboration, an endless list of effort I made sure was relevant, but never was allowed to be submitted, because the judge took up my direct !!.

The judge took up the direct questioning at the start, which did not allow me to submit evidence in a manner that would have artfully disproved, instead forcing me to questions after testimony HE asked for. I understand he would want to keep scope and relevance, but he acted as my direct examination of witnesses which meant I couldn't and defeated my ability to examine orderly. I was not allowed to present a defense and was forced to answer to claims not in her complaint. Yes her petition was a horrific mis-constuction of truth, supported by the object of her affair and a run-away 17 year old.

Again, if your case got a continuance, you got the best that can be hoped for. If he ruled against you, maybe you can appeal. Check with an attorney.

What were you expecting the judge to do? Issue an arrest warrant for the errant officer?

.

I would have hoped he would offer a continuance, but nope, right on into her opening from there and I did not care to be argumentative with a judge, in his procedures.

I'm not clear on what happened here ... did the judge rule or continue the matter? if he ruled, what was his decision? I suspect he upheld the petition for the PPO, correct?

Correct, but this judge was appalled with just the little evidence I did get in about her and chewed her a public admonition that scorched my own ears, honestly.

Frankly, EVERYONE who contests these claims the other party is lying. Invariably men claim the woman was a certifiable loon, and women claim the man was abusive, and both claim the other is a drug addict or alcoholic. The problem is that these kinds of claim and counter claim games go on all the time and the courts get rather weary of hearing them. If your defense was forestalled by an erroneous subpoena service then you should try to schedule another hearing to contest the order. However, I would suggest hiring an attorney to do it this time. It is my experience that most people that do this sort of stuff pro per tend to get shafted.
- Carl

I swore to tell the truth with simply my "Yes" as my "Yes". I would not have contested the PPO if I had done any of what she had claimed, if not for the needs of my 6 year old step son and the damage she is continuing to do, ripping responsible people from his life, for a brood of vipers. Perhaps you've never encountered a true bipolar, manic depressed patient. I am an honest person with sound motivations. If a single argument of yelling at each other was grounds for a PPO, our minister testified that he would have been divorced 6 times in the last year. ;-)

This is serious, but I would like to move for an independent psych eval and seek temporary appointment, after three years of raising the lad. 50K a year doesn't go very far, with her erroding every dime I have from 3 different courses, putting divorce in front of me in this hearing. Testimony and complaints were alleged that were never in her complaint. How do I defend claims that were never stated in the petition affidavit?

Can one move to re-hear, or must this be an appeal?

Thank you Carl.

Mike

 

[Urbansound]

Thanks Carl

Thanks Carl,

Perhaps someone that knows Michigan law will chime in.

Mike

 

[seniorjudge]

Thanks Carl,

Perhaps someone that knows Michigan law will chime in.

Mike

You're going to get a continuance, sounds like to me. Happens millions of times a year all over the country...even in Michigan.

 

[Urbansound]

get a continuance

You're going to get a continuance, sounds like to me. Happens millions of times a year all over the country...even in Michigan.

Thanks Carl,

The thing that happened in this hearing that also has me concerned, is the judge entertained testimoney as to a complaint that the petitioner added to her claims at the time of hearing. There is no way I can defend claims put before the court without due process to seek witnesses and evidence to defend the claims.

The judge also allowed an argumentative witness for the petitioner, sitting in the gallery, to scream at one of my witnesses, arguing completely out of standing, in three volleys, having had no right to interfear with the witness on the stand. The judge didn't stop the proceeding or say a word to the guy.


I thought I was entitled to a "fair" hearing.

Continuation, or "new hearing"? The problem is that I'm having trouble finding any good references of "new hearing", circuit court, for disorderly proceedings. Certainly the complaints heard that were not complained to in the petition are compulsion to re-hear the matter.

There was clear evidence of witness tampering and coaching as well by the petitioner. I'm trying to reach my attorney, but he's so darn busy, it was all I could do get him to evict people from my home she has packed full of strangers, let alone conduct a hearing with 100 plus pages of evidence and 5 testifying on my side.

This is a mess.

Mike

 

[CdwJava]

Thanks Carl,

Actually, the thanks on that one goes to Seniorjudge.

The thing that happened in this hearing that also has me concerned, is the judge entertained testimoney as to a complaint that the petitioner added to her claims at the time of hearing. There is no way I can defend claims put before the court without due process to seek witnesses and evidence to defend the claims.

Procedures for civil hearings differs from those for criminal proceedings. I do not think the plaintiff need provide you with discovery beforehand, and they can introduce virtually anything the court permits.

The judge also allowed an argumentative witness for the petitioner, sitting in the gallery, to scream at one of my witnesses, arguing completely out of standing, in three volleys, having had no right to interfear with the witness on the stand. The judge didn't stop the proceeding or say a word to the guy.

Sounds very odd. Most judges would have had the heckler tossed.

I thought I was entitled to a "fair" hearing.

"Fair" is a subjective term. And the events you describe may seem unfair to you, but they were likely legally permissable.

Continuation, or "new hearing"? The problem is that I'm having trouble finding any good references of "new hearing", circuit court, for disorderly proceedings.

There probably isn't any. You don't have a right to an orderly proceeding - only a fair one, conducted within the rules of your state.

Hence my recommendation that you suck it up and seek an attorney.

There was clear evidence of witness tampering and coaching as well by the petitioner.

"Clear" to you doesn't mean it is provable.

Sorry for your mess.

Good luck!

- Carl

 

[seniorjudge]

Judges (rightly or wrongly) hand out these protective orders with little or no evidence because the judge does not want to see the headline: "Woman, after judge refuses to issue protective order, murdered by stalker."

 

[Urbansound]

Thanks to CDW and the SeniorJudge

Both your points are all well taken, gentlemen. If not for the concern of having to still develop motions to challenge custody, move for re-hearing, appellate filing to guard the re-hearing AND follow evictions proceedings on the garbage boyfriend and thugs, I would love to detail this on a web page and bring in the media for moral guidance before the court, which I may still do.

This judge is typically conservative so the impetus is that such great disorder was caused by the petitioner that even the judge had more to manage than he could, failing to resolve my objections, allowing evidence outside the complaint, dealing with a complete absence of decorum, while I respected the court and did not contribute to those events, even once.

While one of my witnesses is attempting plead the court for causes of my affirmative defense, boyfriend garbage is interrupting the witness from the gallery and arguing the petitioner's cause to the witness, while the father-in-law stands behind the petitioner waiving his arms like a runway director guiding an airliner to speak out loud, at the same time a women-in-transition advocate is tutoring the petitioner by leaning over the gallery fence, instructing her blow-by-blow in her ear, never having been recognized!! REDICULOUS No judge can see all that at once, but audio and video tapes are not fooled.

This is a Quasi-criminal setting in PPO adjudication, such that my name and honer in defense, was usurped not by the judge, but procedural demands greater than most judges would be able to control, let alone should have.

"Good order" or "Order in the court" is adopted from our nation's English heritage and orderly proceedings that are among parliament, where we came from 200 plus years ago. This is a predominant “Given” in the judicial body, to the extent that the mandate is derived from the biblical instruction to do all things in "Good and decent order", sworn before God, under oath at these proceedings that my case went forward on. I have a constitutional right to defend these false claims and the assumption to argue my defense in an orderly setting is implied if not ruled in court rules all the way to Robert's Rules for golfing committees. Fundamental.

Transcripts will prove that petitioner's witnesses gave dissertations in verbatim of the claims made against me, (while having admitted to be in different rooms of the home), given in such redundancy that only practiced coaching could have resulted in such pervasive redundancy.

The notion that discovery and hence the right to depose my accusers comes under court rules of the Michigan circuit court, supported further by the quazi-criminal aspect of PPOs.

Among my Attorney's inability to be present for the 14 day intervening schedule of the court, I had a right to an orderly defense pro per, if not the well known provision of “Latitude”. I had the right to a continuance of the missing witness. Not once did my defense depart orderly or respective decorum, while a band of jobless drunks made carbon copy claims, chipping individual disparaging remarks for the price of her favor.

Does it really take an 8 or 12 year degree in law, to see clearly that fairness is a part of the courtroom procedure of order? Can one artfully present a legal premise in the middle of a bus station full of arguing patrons aggrieved that they couldn't get their money back after tipping over the bus in an outrage of traffic delays?

Yes, it's a complicated mess. I appreciate the comments made truly and one cannot practice law from the contrivances of forum responses, yet I truly appreciate the sustained effort and comment. Thank you truly.

Statistically speaking, if one doesn't try, one cannot expect any results and inversely, the harder one works toward the right of good, the more likely the system can avail itself to the individual, if by no other means than a judge's wearing down of being tired of the likelihood of it coming back to him from a higher court, among this many and more offending events of record.

Maybe thats a hail Mary, or I just have a too-high opinion of the chance for the underdog to prevail in our legal system, but if I don't try, I surely won't win, so what is there to lose that wasn't already lost?

Thank you.

Mike