Petty theft citation

[Kathyp100]

Colorado - My 19 year old son lives alone in his own apartment in Arvada, Colorado. Two week-ends ago he was out of town for the week-end. When he got home, there was a note on his desk with a business card from an Arvada police officer saying that one of his neighbors had called police because my son's apartment door was standing wide open. The note went on to say that the officer checked the apartment and saw no evidence of burglary or anything out of place, but he noticed illegal fireworks in the living room (a package of Roman candles) and asked my son to call him to discuss it. My son did not call him.

This morning the police officer returned to my son's apartment, apparently to discuss the fireworks. When he entered the apartment he saw some street signs that my son had found laying in the road and brought home. The officer told my son he was going to give him a break on the fireworks but he issued him a petty theft ticket for the street signs.

My son has no previous record of any kind and I really hate for something as stupid as this to put a stain on his record. The whole thing just seems kind of odd anyhow. I would very much appreciate any comments, suggestions, advice, etc.

Thanks in advance.

Kathy P.
Worried Mom in ColoradoWhat is the name of your state?

 

[CourtClerk]

Colorado - My 19 year old son lives alone in his own apartment in Arvada, Colorado. Two week-ends ago he was out of town for the week-end. When he got home, there was a note on his desk with a business card from an Arvada police officer saying that one of his neighbors had called police because my son's apartment door was standing wide open. The note went on to say that the officer checked the apartment and saw no evidence of burglary or anything out of place, but he noticed illegal fireworks in the living room (a package of Roman candles) and asked my son to call him to discuss it. My son did not call him.

This morning the police officer returned to my son's apartment, apparently to discuss the fireworks. When he entered the apartment he saw some street signs that my son had found laying in the road and brought home. The officer told my son he was going to give him a break on the fireworks but he issued him a petty theft ticket for the street signs.

My son has no previous record of any kind only because he hasn't been caught and I really hate for something as stupid as this to put a stain on his record That's what happens when you act like an idiot. The whole thing just seems kind of odd anyhow What??? that your son is giving you a bunch of who shot John??? I agree.. I would very much appreciate any comments, suggestions, advice, etc.

Thanks in advance.

Kathy P.
Worried Mom in ColoradoWhat is the name of your state?

Comment: Tell your son he needs 2, 3 or 4 jobs. He has too much time on his hands. He found street signs just laying in the road and decided to pick them up and bring them home????? yeah... ok. A story only a mother can believe (his mother that is). He is clearly not mature enough to be out on his own yet, he still needs supervision. Illegal fireworks, stealing street signs, what else has he done or is he doing that he hasn't got caught doing yet???

 

[Kathyp100]

Boy was I wrong...

Thank you so much. Having you pass judgment on my son and give me your personal opinion without any legal advice or suggestions was so helpful and constructive. I'm so glad I posted here for advice.

Like you said in your reply, somebody definitely has too much time on their hands, but I don't think it's just my son...

Kathy P.

 

[CdwJava]

What advice is there to give, besides saying he needs to consult an attorney?

First, he has illegal fireworks and then blows off the cops ... fine, he has that right. But, it doesn't make the offense go away and only makes the cops more inclined to send the case up for prosecution.

Next, he has street signs that he "found" and then brings them home. Mom, you can't POSSIBLY believe that is true, can you? It's not the crime of the century to be sure and is perpetrated by young men everywhere, but he did not just find them lying around and happen to bring them home.

Street signs can be expensive. I'm surprised he was not arrested for grand theft ... though I'm not sure of the dollar value for that threshold in Colorado.

Your son got caught with evidence of two lesser offenses. It's not the end of the world, and he can probably come out of this on his two feet but a few dollars poorer and with a short probation term if he consults an attorney.

- Carl

 

[CourtClerk]

Thank you so much. Having you pass judgment on my son and give me your personal opinion without any legal advice or suggestions was so helpful and constructive. I'm so glad I posted here for advice.

Like you said in your reply, somebody definitely has too much time on their hands, but I don't think it's just my son...

Kathy P.

Here's is the last line in your original post:

I would very much appreciate any comments, suggestions, advice, etc

I gave you a comment AND a suggestion (in that your kid needs supervision). Just what you asked for. It may not have been what you wanted to hear, but it is what you asked for. Next time, you should state "I would very much appreciate any comments, suggestions, advice, etc. that would make me feel better" if that's what you really want. The obvious (maybe not to you) is that he needs an attorney.

Carl:

Next, he has street signs that he "found" and then brings them home. Mom, you can't POSSIBLY believe that is true, can you?

Obviously yes, she can.

Street signs can be expensive. I'm surprised he was not arrested for grand theft

Me too. You know in the great state of CA he'd be in a world of trouble.

 

[aares]

LOL..."in CA he would be in a world of trouble". Pretty funny, and doubtful.

Anyways, how many street signs are we talking? Stop signs, street name signs, what?

A package of roman candles are really no big deal. Most police will simply take the fireworks and give the person a warning.

Your son should have called the policeman back. Simple ignorance is what that was.

Talk to several lawyers that have free consultations, then proceed with that lawyer in which you like the most. See if there is a program for first time offenders in CA.

Tell your son that he is an idiot for not calling that cop back, and to stop stealing things.

 

[racer72]

About 15 years ago, 4 teens "found" a stop sign and took it, one of the teens thought a stop sign would look cool on her bedroom wall. Shortly afterwards, a driver unfamilar with the road drove though the intersection and hit another car, killing a child and seriously injurying 2 others. A resident of the area noted the vehicle of the 4 teens and told the officer investigating the fatal accident. The teens were found and charged with involuntary manslaughter, their actions were considered a secondary cause to the child's death. All spent significant time behind bars for their actions.

I knew one of those teens since she was a toddler. Today her life is still a mess because she wanted a stop sign in her bedroom. Next time your son "finds" any signs, tell him to call the highway department and leave the signs where he found them.

 

[CourtClerk]

LOL..."in CA he would be in a world of trouble". Pretty funny, and doubtful.

Really? I work in a courtroom everyday. What's your experience?

Anyways, how many street signs are we talking? Stop signs, street name signs, what?

Does it matter?

A package of roman candles are really no big deal. Most police will simply take the fireworks and give the person a warning.

The issue with the fireworks wasn't pursued... paying attention yet?

Your son should have called the policeman back. Simple ignorance is what that was.

This is the only half coherent thing you've said in this whole post...


Talk to several lawyers that have free consultations, then proceed with that lawyer in which you like the most. See if there is a program for first time offenders in CA.

Seeing as if the OP's son lives in Colorado.... what does a first time offenders program in CA have to do with the price of tea in China??? Again... did you read the OP at ALL??? or just the responses?

Tell your son that he is an idiot for not calling that cop back, and to stop stealing things.

No, she should just tell her son he's an idiot... and you should look yourself in the mirror and do the same.

 

[Kathyp100]

Thanks to those who offered constructive advice.

Thank you very much to those of you who offered advice without passing judgment or assuming you knew all the details. As naive as it may sound, it actually wasn't obvious to me that my son would need an attorney in this case, which is why I posted here to begin with. None of my family has ever been in any kind of trouble with the law before nor have we ever contacted an attorney for any reason. For those who wondered about the signs, they were street signs (71st Avenue, Union Street, etc.).

Racer72 - Very poignant story and I'm sorry for the heartache I know that young lady has experienced.

Court Clerk - I feel really sorry for folks who have to build themselves up by tearing other people down - especially people that they know nothing more about than what they have read in a two paragraph message. Your condescending and arrogant statements were not helpful in the least but I'm sure they made you feel very superior. Not that I need to justify it to you or anyone, but my son lives on his own, works full time, goes to college part time, supports himself 100% and is a damn good kid. However, like all of us at one time or another, he has to learn some things the hard way, unfortunately. Save your rebuttal (although I'm sure you won't be able to - your kind can't stand to not get in the last word...) because I'm done trying to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person...

Again, thanks to everyone else who responded. We will contact some attorneys for advice and go from there.

Kathy P.

 

[outonbail]

When you, or rather your son sits down with this attorney to discuss the case, make sure your son is aware that if he fails to be completely truthful as to the facts of how he came into possession of these street signs, or fails to answer questions as truthfully and as accurately as he can, the attorney can not be expected to arrange the best possible outcome in this situation. To hire a lawyer and then feed him misinformation is a complete waste of money. Give him all the facts, no matter how bad or guilty they make your son look and let the attorney decide what would be best, fight the charges or arrange a deal that will result in minimal damage to your son's wallet and criminal record.

As far as him finding these street signs laying in the road, it will certainly be a simple enough thing for the police to drive over to the location(s) where these signs were originally posted and look for any damage to the pole that these signs would have originally been posted on, which is consistent with an automobile hitting it or knocking it down. If there is still a pole in the ground, only without the signs themselves attached, then it is obvious that the signs were removed by a person and a couple of hand tools. Now I personally can't see someone going through all the trouble of removing these street signs, just to lay them on the road so the next guy (like your son) that happens to walk by, discovers them.
Additionally, even if these signs were laying in the road, unattached to a pole, they are still county, or city property and it is illegal to take them home as souvenirs.

Now personally, I have never seen these type of signs fall, get blown off or even fly off the pole they are attached to, due to a traffic collision, although I have seen some get pretty mangled, just like the pole they are still attached to, but they are no longer in any condition for someone to display in their home.
Also, since you posted that there were, "some" signs, I take that to mean more than one. If so, I hope they came off of the same pole, because if they are from two different areas, it is going to really sound unbelievable to claim that there were street signs laying in the road in several different locations and for no apparent reason.

 

[Kathyp100]

Thanks! And one more question.

Outonbail - Thankyou, some very good points that I will pass along to my son. I have asked him over and over and over about how the signs came into his possession and as dumb as his story sounds, I truly believe he is telling the truth. He said one day on his way to work he noticed a light pole with the signs attached to them had been knocked down in a car accident. A week or so later a new light pole had been erected and it had new signs on it. The old light pole that had been knocked down was gone, but the signs that were attached to it had been removed and were laying in the gutter. One was a street sign (64th Street) and one was a no parking sign. That was when his better judgment took a leave of absence and he picked them up and took them home. In his teenage mind which doesn't yet have a huge degree of common sense, he justified it because the replacement signs were up and he figured the old signs were being discarded.

Can I toss one more question out there? I called the city attorney's office to see if I could get any idea for how this case might go. The city attorney's legal assistant was very friendly and helpful. She suggested that my son go to his initial court date and plead not guilty. She said that will then set him up for a pre-trial hearing with the city attorney, and we could find out at that point what the city attorney might be willing to offer (such as a deferred judgment, etc.). If it's not something that my son is comfortable with or that would put this crime on his permanent record, we could retain an attorney at that point.

Does anyone have any thoughts about the wisdom of that advice? Do we risk anything by going into a pre-trial hearing with the city attorney without having our own attorney? I'm really sorry if my questions seem terribly naive, but like I said before we have no experience at this kind of thing and just aren't sure which way to go. We aren't rich people and for sure don't want to retain an attorney if we can work this out ourselves, but at the same time I don't want to risk jeopardizing my son's future with a criminal conviction on his record.

Thanks once again.

Kathy P.

 

[outonbail]

Well if your son is telling the truth, it should be easy enough to have the road department or public works department or whoever it is that replaces these light poles and street signs verify that they recently replaced the light pole and signs because a car collided with the one they replaced and damaged it. They would also be able to explain why they would take the signs off the pole, take the pole away and leave the signs in the gutter, because quite frankly, it makes no sense. Now I'm not saying it isn't possible that the city crew did this, I just can't imagine why they would even bother? Why go through the effort of removing the signs from the light pole, if they had a new pole ready to install which came with new signs already attached?
But I wouldn't be surprised to hear the city crew claim that when they went to pick up the old pole and signs, that someone had already removed the old signs from the pole so they just took the pole. This sounds possible since the pole is now laying on the ground and the signs are not twenty feet high and out of reach. But most of the city road workers I have known, don't look for extra, unnecessary work to do and removing signs from a damaged light pole that is about to be hauled away, would be redundant and I can't imagine them doing this, just to discard them in the gutter. But I suppose stranger things have happened.

However, even if the city crew tossed the signs in the gutter, it would not make them free game for whoever wants them and this then is your son's real problem.

He can appear without an attorney to plead not guilty or even to ask for an extension before he enters a plea. However he shouldn't discuss his defense or give his rendition of how he came to possess these signs to the prosecution because everything he says to them, can be used against him.
I think it would be best to get a free consultation with a local criminal defense attorney who's familiar with the DA and judge and listen to his advice concerning what to say and more importantly, what not to say to the prosecution.