Police dept violating my rights

[Ljh815]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IL

I own a business in IL and believe my rights are being violated by a local police dept.

We buy merchandise from the public (much like a pawn shop does) and occasionally this merchandise is reported stolen after the fact. One of our local police departments is seizing this merchandise without providing restitution, court order, or anything in writing stating they have the right to do so. When I questioned their procedures, they threatened to arrest me for obstruction. All other police departments in our area do not operate in this manner. They always make the owner of the stolen property pay restitution before taking our merchandise.

I was also told by a detective in a nearby county that there was a law passed over a year ago preventing police from taking merchandise from businesses.

I have called the states attorneys office, but they are giving me the run around.

Please help!

 

[CdwJava]

From a fairness standpoint, it makes sense not to punish a victim because the crook stole their property. But, you shouldn't also be punished for conducting a legitimate transaction. However, in a review of local ordinances governing second hand dealers in IL, it appears that many jurisdictions require the business to turn over stolen property without compensation. I'm still searching for the state law governing these transactions.

Are you adhering to all state and local laws concerning identifying the person selling you the property and reporting these transfers to local law enforcement as required under the law?

EDIT: And it appears state law allows for the return of the property without compensation:

(205 ILCS 510/9) (from Ch. 17, par. 4659)
Sec. 9. No pawnbroker shall purchase or take any article in pawn or pledge from any person appearing to be intoxicated, nor from any person known to have been convicted of theft. A law enforcement officer may provide such criminal conviction information to a pawnbroker. When any person is found to be the owner of stolen property which has been pawned, such property shall be returned to the owner thereof without the payment of the money advanced by the pawnbroker thereon or any costs or charges of any kind which the pawnbroker may have placed upon the same.
(Source: P.A. 84-1308.)

There may be a more recent amendment, but you might want to contact some sort of state association of pawnbrokers or secondhand dealers for that info.

 

[Ljh815]

From a fairness standpoint, it makes sense not to punish a victim because the crook stole their property. But, you shouldn't also be punished for conducting a legitimate transaction. However, in a review of local ordinances governing second hand dealers in IL, it appears that many jurisdictions require the business to turn over stolen property without compensation. I'm still searching for the state law governing these transactions.

Are you adhering to all state and local laws concerning identifying the person selling you the property and reporting these transfers to local law enforcement as required under the law?

Not being a "pawn shop" we are not required to report these transactions to law enforcement, but we do get a bill of sale from everyone we buy from and check ID's. We also have a video survalliance system that records the entire process. We have assisted police in busting several thieves in the 4 years we have been in business.

 

[TigerD]

Not being a "pawn shop" we are not required to report these transactions to law enforcement, but we do get a bill of sale from everyone we buy from and check ID's. We also have a video survalliance system that records the entire process. We have assisted police in busting several thieves in the 4 years we have been in business.

You have a hard time claiming to be innocent with that much criminal traffic going through your business.


DC

 

[CdwJava]

Not being a "pawn shop" we are not required to report these transactions to law enforcement, but we do get a bill of sale from everyone we buy from and check ID's. We also have a video survalliance system that records the entire process. We have assisted police in busting several thieves in the 4 years we have been in business.

Even if you are not required to report the transactions to law enforcement, it appears that state law still does not permit you to be compensated when you receive stolen property.

 

[Ljh815]

You have a hard time claiming to be innocent with that much criminal traffic going through your business.


DC

In 4 years of business we have had approx 15 items reported stolen out of 18k transactions. We have worked hard to weed out criminal traffic. Only one case in last 6 months.

The point here is only one PD is seizing our merchandise.... All others do not.

 

[LeeHarveyBlotto]

In 4 years of business we have had approx 15 items reported stolen out of 18k transactions. We have worked hard to weed out criminal traffic. Only one case in last 6 months.

The point here is only one PD is seizing our merchandise.... All others do not.

Have any of the 15 items turned out not to be stolen?

 

[Ljh815]

Have any of the 15 items turned out not to be stolen?

Yes, and most were returned to us 2 yrs later. Basically, if you come into our store and claim an item is yours this department will take it. No proof required.

 

[CdwJava]

In 4 years of business we have had approx 15 items reported stolen out of 18k transactions. We have worked hard to weed out criminal traffic. Only one case in last 6 months.

The point here is only one PD is seizing our merchandise.... All others do not.

All because the others might not be doing it does not mean that the local PD is breaking the law.

What city are you in? Since it seems that state law does not require you be compensated, then it might be up to local statutes. Unless local statutes require you to be compensated, then you appear to be out of luck.

If there is some state law or amendment to the law that permits or requires you to be compensated, I imagine you can find it pretty quickly with a call to a state-wide group that represents the interests of pawn shops and/or second hand dealer businesses.

 

[Ljh815]

From a fairness standpoint, it makes sense not to punish a victim because the crook stole their property. But, you shouldn't also be punished for conducting a legitimate transaction. However, in a review of local ordinances governing second hand dealers in IL, it appears that many jurisdictions require the business to turn over stolen property without compensation. I'm still searching for the state law governing these transactions.

Are you adhering to all state and local laws concerning identifying the person selling you the property and reporting these transfers to local law enforcement as required under the law?

EDIT: And it appears state law allows for the return of the property without compensation:

(205 ILCS 510/9) (from Ch. 17, par. 4659)
Sec. 9. No pawnbroker shall purchase or take any article in pawn or pledge from any person appearing to be intoxicated, nor from any person known to have been convicted of theft. A law enforcement officer may provide such criminal conviction information to a pawnbroker. When any person is found to be the owner of stolen property which has been pawned, such property shall be returned to the owner thereof without the payment of the money advanced by the pawnbroker thereon or any costs or charges of any kind which the pawnbroker may have placed upon the same.
(Source: P.A. 84-1308.)

There may be a more recent amendment, but you might want to contact some sort of state association of pawnbrokers or secondhand dealers for that info.

Thanks for your help. I believe the law was amended but I cannot find it. The detective in an adjacent county that told me of the law did not take our merchandise. Wish I would have questioned him more about it.

 

[Ladyback1]

Thanks for your help. I believe the law was amended but I cannot find it. The detective in an adjacent county that told me of the law did not take our merchandise. Wish I would have questioned him more about it.

1) just because a neighboring law enforcement jurisdiction doesn't do something/does something different, doesn't make them correct. It's all about what are the local policies and procedures. Local being the jurisdiction in which your business is located.

2) The cops could always just charge you with receiving stolen goods. AND STILL confiscate the goods...

 

[Ljh815]

All because the others might not be doing it does not mean that the local PD is breaking the law.

What city are you in? Since it seems that state law does not require you be compensated, then it might be up to local statutes. Unless local statutes require you to be compensated, then you appear to be out of luck.

If there is some state law or amendment to the law that permits or requires you to be compensated, I imagine you can find it pretty quickly with a call to a state-wide group that represents the interests of pawn shops and/or second hand dealer businesses.

I agree... That's why I am trying to locate the law

 

[FlyingRon]

As civil law goes, you have no right to be compensated from the person the property was stolen from. Your only redress is against the person who sold you the stolen property. It would behoove you to make sure you know where to find them to sue even if your shop has no statutory requirement to do so.

 

[Ljh815]

1) just because a neighboring law enforcement jurisdiction doesn't do something/does something different, doesn't make them correct. It's all about what are the local policies and procedures. Local being the jurisdiction in which your business is located.

2) The cops could always just charge you with receiving stolen goods. AND STILL confiscate the goods...

That's the problem... The local policies may not be lawful. That's what we are trying to determine here.

The way I interpret the law... a person can only be charged with receiving stolen goods if they had knowledge they were stolen.... Which is never the case here.

 

[davew128]

2) The cops could always just charge you with receiving stolen goods. AND STILL confiscate the goods...

Yes, that would go over well, since clearly the business owner has knowledge that the goods were stolen and intent to take possession of them.