Police harassment/misconduct on private property

[Kirit]

What is the name of your state? Michigan

My family owns a motel and have had enough of what we feel is police harassment. Are they (police) allowed to enter our parking lot without our permission? I think/believe that putting up a sign saying "guests only --no trespassing" could possibly solve this problem. Please let us know what we can do, we are tired of our guests being harassed for nothing.

thanks
kirit
edit: If this is not the right section for this thread, could a mod please move it there. thanks.

 

[racer72]

Are they (police) allowed to enter our parking lot without our permission?

Yes unless you have a gate the restricts entry to everyone. If it is open to the public, the police can go there. Even if it is not open to the public, the police can go in if they witness any criminal activity.

I think/believe that putting up a sign saying "guests only --no trespassing" could possibly solve this problem.

You think/believe wrong.

Please let us know what we can do, we are tired of our guests being harassed for nothing.

Try to attract a higher level of customers that would not attract the police or hire an attorney to review the problem and possibly discuss the issue with your local police department.

 

[tranquility]

The police have certain privileges when it comes to public or semi-public areas. A good summary of the law, at least in California but based on federal law is at:
http://www.acgov.org/da/pov/documents/police_trespassing.pdf

What happens if the police are specifically told to exit private property by the owner is more difficult and depends on why the police are there. Posting a sign is not going to fullfill this specific denial of privilege to the officer.

It would be better to deal with why you think it is harrassment rather than trying some tresspassing theory. You don't have one of those establishments were you have a 300-400% occupancy rate do you?

 

[gawm]

Try to attract a higher level of customers that would not attract the police

If he wanted that, his family would own a hotel, not a motel.
What are the police doing that you feel is harassing your customers?
I bet half of your customers feel a lot safer that the police are there a lot of the time. I guess it all depends on the clientele you want to cater to.

 

[racer72]

If he wanted that, his family would own a hotel, not a motel.

It sounds alot like the motels along what many areas call "The Strip". Independant motel operators that can make money on having mulitple customers per room per day.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

What is the name of your state? Michigan

My family owns a motel and have had enough of what we feel is police harassment. Are they (police) allowed to enter our parking lot without our permission?

Yes

I think/believe that putting up a sign saying "guests only --no trespassing" could possibly solve this problem.

If you think this you are an idiot.

Please let us know what we can do, we are tired of our guests being harassed for nothing.

Then make sure your "Guests" are not breaking the law.

edit: If this is not the right section for this thread, could a mod please move it there. thanks.

The RIGHT section for this is Joke of the Day.

 

[Kirit]

Wow, I'm a bit surprised by the immaturity of some of the posts. I guess you get what you pay for.

Some more information, based on relevant questions.
Are guests breaking the law:
-No, unless being black is against the law.
Try contacting police department:
-Tried it, the problem lessens for a few months and then picks up again.
Try contacting an attorney:
-He suggested taping what is happening, which we have been doing. This seems to be working as soon as the police come into the parking lot, I'll go up to them with a camcorder and ask them what they want, and ask them to leave. Usually i get threatened to stop recording them or get arrested. This tactic has slowed the number of times the police will come to the motel a lot. The problem, is that its freaking cold outside right now.

More info:
The motel caters mainly to blacks who are middle class. Our rates range from 65-80 for overnight and about 45 dollars for stays less than a full day. We dont run 100%+ occupancy since we would rather rent them overnight. We do own other motels that are run such that their occupancy sometimes exceeds 100% and also own 2 hotels.

If your black and sitting in your car either waiting to get a room, waiting for your car to get hot, ..... and a cop drives into the lot. The police office will start questioning you, then make you get out of your car, pat you down, handcuff you and make you wait in the police car. The police officer will go through your car and if nothing is found, let you go. If something is found take you in. Now in December id say this happened to about 20 people, of that number 2 or 3 were arrested for something or other, and the rest let go after an hour or so.

If your white and sitting in your car you have nothing to worry about if a cop is driving by.

By going out and questioning the police with a camcorder in hand, we have dropped the number of times these incidents happen to less than 5 in January (and none of them were arrested), however we want a more permanent solution. The sign idea was actually a suggested solution in one of your archive threads/faq.

Is it ok to link videos to this site? Id love to showcase some of this behavior.

thanks for your time,
Kirit

 

[pacific22]

I agree with your ideas Kirit. And believe the comments you have received from others in regards to your situation were clearly non-beneficial.

Please take into consideration people come here for advice. Not to listen to sarcasm. I'm sure the guy has heard enough from just the officers who continue to re-visit this guys place of business.

It sounds to me that this guy would like a professional/clean environment for his customers, however, if the officers are showing up unnecessarily, then I truly believe a solution needs to be in place because we all know that it makes a bad image on the motel itself if the police are showing up multiple times during the month.

 

[tranquility]

I have no problem video recording the area and letting the *victims* of the harrassment use the video as proof in any police misconduct complaint or civil suit.

I don't think that would solve the problem, at least in the short term. (Assuming there is illegal police activity going on.) Many civil rights groups train observers who do exactly what you are doing by going outside with the camera. Before doing this as a policy, I'd go get some state-specific training to make sure you don't go afoul of the law. Contact the different civil rights groups in the area, someone will surely know where such training can be gotten.

If it truly a racist police force, keep all "proof" and turn it over to different civil rights groups for grassroots action or organize yourself.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

I have no problem video recording the area and letting the *victims* of the harrassment use the video as proof in any police misconduct complaint or civil suit.

I don't think that would solve the problem, at least in the short term. (Assuming there is illegal police activity going on.) Many civil rights groups train observers who do exactly what you are doing by going outside with the camera. Before doing this as a policy, I'd go get some state-specific training to make sure you don't go afoul of the law. Contact the different civil rights groups in the area, someone will surely know where such training can be gotten.

If it truly a racist police force, keep all "proof" and turn it over to different civil rights groups for grassroots action or organize yourself.

How much do you want to bet that a cursory review of arrests in the area show an inordinate amount of them at this 'hotel'?

The plain fact is, based on the facts in the initial post, the action is NOT illegal. And you know that tran.

 

[Kirit]

How much do you want to bet that a cursory review of arrests in the area show an inordinate amount of them at this 'hotel'?

Is there a way to ask for such a review? Since I think that a review would prove otherwise, this would prove it.

The plain fact is, based on the facts in the initial post, the action is NOT illegal. And you know that tran.

It might not be illegal, but its immoral/unfair. Stories like the one below, show that there is some problem:
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/494375p-416457c.html

kirit

 

[BelizeBreeze]

Is there a way to ask for such a review? Since I think that a review would prove otherwise, this would prove it.

Yes, you can file an FOIA requestion with the department.

It might not be illegal, but its immoral/unfair. Stories like the one below, show that there is some problem:
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/494375p-416457c.html

kirit

And immoral is not the purpose of this forum. This is a LEGAL forum.

 

[tranquility]

The plain fact is, based on the facts in the initial post, the action is NOT illegal. And you know that tran.

I agree. A police officer coming onto private property to do legitimate police action is not harrassment not matter how many times they do it. However, the OP feels it is not legitimate police activity and that the reason for the number of contacts is because of racisim. He did not post specifics and did not ask for an opinion of whether the acts were harrassment. He only said they were and asked for advice on how to deal with it in a responsible manner.

I had (have) my suspicions as well.

You don't have one of those establishments were you have a 300-400% occupancy rate do you?

and:

(Assuming there is illegal police activity going on.)

and:

truly a racist police force, keep all "proof"

But, you take things as you find them. I chose to post as I did. You chose to post as you did. We can each calculate how those postings help us achieve our personal goals from participation in the forum.

 

[gawm]

Install a T.V quality surveillance system that monitors the parking lot 24/7. Then will help you keep proof of what may be happening no matter what the weather. It would also eliminate the "Stop recording or go to jail" threats.

 

[CdwJava]

Also note that by maintaining a business subject to licensing, inspection, and related regulation, you may be obligated to permit the police on the property in publicly accessible areas. It is also possible that you might be required to turn over registration logs to the police if asked. What the laws are in your state, I don't know.

Hopefully, your clientèle are not involved in drugs, prostitution, or other illegal activities. But, the activity you describe IS consistent with that sort of thing. It would be no great surprise to me that it would attract some attention.

- Carl