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Private autopsie and police

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CdwJava

Senior Member
What is next step if police don't open homocide invest. , lawyer or private investigator or another autopsy ?
If you have the money, and can identify a party responsible for any death, then you can speak with an attorney about a lawsuit.

You might be able to get the state to order an autopsy or a coroner's inquest to establish that the matter was a homicide rather than a natural or accidental death.

But, unless your autopsy can show conclusive evidence of a homicide, the police may not do much of anything. Chances are the "gash" will be consistent with a number of scenarios and not solely consistent with being struck by a blunt object.
 


CdwJava

Senior Member
Police seem to be focusing on trying to prove that they were correct from outset. They even tried to blame gash on body movers or funeral parlor. I just know something suspicious happened but no one will help. I thought once I gave them info about gash and theft and broken glasses and pillow on floor near head, they would just turn it into a possible homocide investigation but I guess that's not how it works. They will do anything to not have to.
I have seen many families in denial in a great many accidental deaths and suicides. There was one family that I used to meet with every anniversary of their loved one's death so that we could go over the latest theories espoused by various family members and rehash the autopsy and investigation.

As i have no way to know what the police know or knew at the time, I cannot explain why they might have concluded it to be natural or accidental. But, "suspicious" does not always mean criminal.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
The police called his doctor Ifrom the scene and got him to ok the natural . I had an autopsy done a week later because I was alerted by funeral that he had a fresh gash on his head.
If there is nothing suspicious the police do call the treating physician. Unless the doctor believes a natural death is unlikely or the police view the death as suspicious for some reason, the doctor signs the death cert listing death due to natural causes.

So, unless the police deemed the circumstances surrounding the death as suspicious, you have what you have. As others have stated, a gash on his forehead may not be deemed suspicious. If he was standing and collapsed, he may have struck his head upon falling. That could also account for broken glasses. The pillow? More than the mention of a pillow would be needed to even guess whether it has any meaning.


So, have you read the police report? Have you reciewed the scene of his death? Those two matters can be very informative.

When alive, head wounds tend to bleed, a lot. Was there blood on the floor near where the cut was on his head in relation to the floor? Wounds caused by movers or the funeral home would appear quite different than a wound to a living person. Typically wounds found on the body at the scene will also be noted in the police report if they were scene.


Contrary to popular belief, not every death recieves the attention the stories on all the cop with crime lab television shows. A lot of the time, people die and there is no investigation at all. It has to be seen as suspicious. While cops may miss some things, generally they have a suspicious eye (their work requires it to be an effective cop) and do tend to see things that are suspicious.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
And the fact that he had a doctor willing to sign the death certificate tells us that he was suffering from some ailment that could have caused or seriously contributed to his death.
 

Miadora

Member
I was very involved with anything involving his health. He had no chronic health problems other than high cholesterol. His main problem that I saw and Doctor told me prior to his death, was a dependency on zanex, which I feel was over prescribed by same Doctor that police called to ok the natural death. Sure it is possible that he just suddenly died but there are many things that police didn't know at time of deciding not suspicious : fresh gash on head (missed because body had already turned purple when I found him), bank/charge cards missing and used after his death, found on soft couch face down but nose things on glasses broken (how do keel over while in seated position on couch onto face into soft couch with such force as to have those things break off?), some cigg. butts were removed from house couple days later and answering machine messages deleted. And more. I just don't understand why, when all this is taken in entirety, can't this turn into a suspicious death and an investigation done.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
I was very involved with anything involving his health. He had no chronic health problems other than high cholesterol. His main problem that I saw and Doctor told me prior to his death, was a dependency on zanex, which I feel was over prescribed by same Doctor that police called to ok the natural death. Sure it is possible that he just suddenly died but there are many things that police didn't know at time of deciding not suspicious : fresh gash on head (missed because body had already turned purple when I found him), bank/charge cards missing and used after his death, found on soft couch face down but nose things on glasses broken (how do keel over while in seated position on couch onto face into soft couch with such force as to have those things break off?), some cigg. butts were removed from house couple days later and answering machine messages deleted. And more. I just don't understand why, when all this is taken in entirety, can't this turn into a suspicious death and an investigation done.
Even if Xanax was "over prescribed," I suspect the dosage indicated was appropriate and any misuse of the medication would be on the decedent, not the doctor.

As for all the details you mention, I cannot venture a guess as to whether these were considered and dismissed, or ignored, since I was not present. I can posit a plausible and real-world explanation for each of those details you mention, but, I'd be speculating to high heaven. As has been stated here, you cannot force the police or anyone to investigate this death as a homicide. Your best bet may be to make contact with the state medical examiner's office when your private autopsy is done and see if they will hold a coroner's inquest (assuming that is a procedure appropriate for your state). If that inquest concludes that the matter is a homicide, then the police might be inclined to look into the matter further.
 

Miadora

Member
Ok thanks. One more question. We have the money (his money that was left to us) to hire a private detective. Can they investigate and determine if it was a murder? If so how does that work ? Do they actually investigate and try to find the person involved and solve and arrest person? Or is this just wishful thinking? Are they allowed to do Dna testing ?
 

CTU

Meddlesome Priestess
Ok thanks. One more question. We have the money (his money that was left to us) to hire a private detective. Can they investigate and determine if it was a murder? If so how does that work ? Do they actually investigate and try to find the person involved and solve and arrest person? Or is this just wishful thinking? Are they allowed to do Dna testing ?
No. A PI cannot decide whether or not a death is a murder, nor can they compel anyone to provide a DNA sample .. or anything else, actually.
 

Miadora

Member
I just want to know what happened. I am 9o% sure someone killed him. I and any rational person iwould be 100% sure someone was in his house when he died and took his cards and withdrew thousands of dollars from his account. Also he transferred $ 10,000 to his checking account the day before. Also moved all his investments same day. What would you do ? Lawyer ? Private detectives ? I am at a loss and am investigating it my self... Even going to use a black light to see where gash happened in house... Blood looks like it was cleaned up... Just small spots around house on floor. A rinsed out bloody dish towel found in bedroom upstairs. A little on bathroom sink. I am next going to get chip out of land line phone and see if someone can recover messages.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
Have you alerted the bank to the presumed theft? I don't know what kind of bank card you are talking about but many ATM's and retail stores have security cameras
 

CTU

Meddlesome Priestess
This is starting to sound very, very familiar.

Have you posted this on another forum, per chance?
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Ok thanks. One more question. We have the money (his money that was left to us) to hire a private detective. Can they investigate and determine if it was a murder? If so how does that work ? Do they actually investigate and try to find the person involved and solve and arrest person? Or is this just wishful thinking? Are they allowed to do Dna testing ?
A private detective can investigate, but they cannot officially determine if a death is murder or not. All they can do is gather information and provide it to you - and to whomever else you allow them to provide it. MAYBE they can uncover enough info to convince the police to take another look. Maybe not.

And, no, they cannot compel DNA. They can collect items that you can pay to have tested for DNA, but, if there is no sample to compare the sample to, then it's sort of moot.

Miadora said:
I just want to know what happened. I am 9o% sure someone killed him. I and any rational person iwould be 100% sure someone was in his house when he died and took his cards and withdrew thousands of dollars from his account. Also he transferred $ 10,000 to his checking account the day before. Also moved all his investments same day.
All of which can have non-criminal explanations. They may seem suspicious to you or even to others, but, they may also be perfectly innocuous.

What would you do ? Lawyer ? Private detectives ? I am at a loss and am investigating it my self... Even going to use a black light to see where gash happened in house... Blood looks like it was cleaned up... Just small spots around house on floor. A rinsed out bloody dish towel found in bedroom upstairs. A little on bathroom sink. I am next going to get chip out of land line phone and see if someone can recover messages.
Sounds like he may have had the head injury before he died. Maybe he fell and hurt himself. Who knows?

As for what to do, well, you may be doing it. You can pay for a private forensic pathologist (an autopsy), you can hire a PI to do some legwork, and you can gather whatever financial records you can get a hold of in order to try and convince someone to look into the matter. But, nothing can FORCE the police, the state's attorney, or anyone else to investigate if they feel there is nothing there. Before you will likely get them to investigate the DEATH, you may well have to work through the state medical examiner as I previously mentioned. As long as the death is determined to be of natural causes, then the police will have a very difficult time justifying an investigation and probably could not get the subpoenas or search warrants they might otherwise need to look into the financial suspicions.

As for the financial questions, those transactions should be pretty easy to track down as to who did what and when, but, the bank may not legally be able to tell you squat, so you may not have the whole story.
 

Miadora

Member
Thank you. All your information is tremendously helpful as I had no clue as to how to proceed. I think I will talk to a private detective I if for nothing more than as to feel not so all alone in trying to find out the circumstances of his death. In meantime I will continue to my own laymans investigation.
 

Miadora

Member
Does anyone know how to find a good lawyer to help me with this? Do I just look up local criminal lawyers.? How do I know if they have experience in this sort of case ?
 
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