A question about Federal Search and Seige Warrent....

[arleighesq]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Iowa

ok so heres some questions. 4 days ago I have ICE, FBI, US Marshals, Local and county officers initiate a Federal Search and Siege warrant on the house im living in. Its my moms place. the checked all the computers in the house and ended up taking my main computer, ipad, iphone, windows phone, mem cards from upstairs of my moms house in my room. and 1 laptop from the main floor in the living room. now that you know all that here is the real question. I was reading the warrant after they got done and left and it said that the warrant was for an RV outside the house and a ONE story house. they have surveillance photos and all kinds of stuff so they knew it was 2 story house. does that warrant allow for a search of the second story? also they put on the receipts the wrong names for my computer. They said the warrant covered my cellphones too but i didn't read anywhere on there that the phone was to be taken just that electronic storage devices. I know my iphone and ipad and store but really does that cover it? they said in about a year i will hear weither they are gonna charge me with something or not. is that normal?

 

[justalayman]

does that warrant allow for a search of the second story?

it could allow for a suppression of all the evidence seized since it appears they may have been surveilling a different house.

It would be something worth looking into.

They said the warrant covered my cellphones too but i didn't read anywhere on there that the phone was to be taken just that electronic storage devices. I know my iphone and ipad and store but really does that cover it?

a cellphone is an electronic storage device just as much as a computer is. There is very little I can do on my computer that I cannot do on my phone. Just not as convenient and not as much storage space.

they said in about a year i will hear weither they are gonna charge me with something or not. is that normal?

it all depends on what the possible charges are. Given that statement, I would guess the search is simply part of a larger investigation. Once they complete their investigation, they will determine whether and what charges to file.

also they put on the receipts the wrong names for my computer.

the wrong names? You mean like they wrote; Bob;s computer when it was obviously indentified as Sam's computer? or a Dell instead of an HP or a specific model error?


depending on what you are calling the "wrong name", it could allow a challenge for any evidence used against you obtained from the erroneously labeled computer. When they testify they found such and such on the Dell computer seized from your house, you counter with; wow, that's great. Too bad though since I never had a Dell computer. No idea whose computer the "evidence" you are blaming me for is but that is obviously not the computer I had in my house.

Obviously very simplistic in the statement but you should get the drift.

 

[HighwayMan]

Geez, now they're requiring a warrant for a siege? What the hell is the world coming to?

 

[arleighesq]

the wrong names? You mean like they wrote; Bob;s computer when it was obviously indentified as Sam's computer? or a Dell instead of an HP or a specific model error?


depending on what you are calling the "wrong name", it could allow a challenge for any evidence used against you obtained from the erroneously labeled computer. When they testify they found such and such on the Dell computer seized from your house, you counter with; wow, that's great. Too bad though since I never had a Dell computer. No idea whose computer the "evidence" you are blaming me for is but that is obviously not the computer I had in my house.

Obviously very simplistic in the statement but you should get the drift.

Yes they put on the receipt a HP Custom Build CPU ... It is a custom built computer but it contains nothing on the case calling it a HP computer. Also do i have to wait for charges to get filed before I can try to get a court appointed lawyer or regular lawyer?

Thanks for your reply.

 

[justalayman]

You can hire a lawyer out of your pocket any time you want. Not sure on the court appointed lawyer issue. I understand the fed courts deal with this quite differently than a state court. Maybe somebody with more knowledge on the subject will post.

 

[swalsh411]

No, calling a computer an "HP" when it is not an HP doesn't matter. What will actually matter is what they find on the hard drive, which will be recorded into evidence as something like the "Seagate 300 gigabyte serial # 03456813". The video card, cpu, power supply, etc won't contain any evidence

If you are reasonably certain that they will find evidence, then you should hire a lawyer now who can represent you. If you don't think they will, then sit tight, say NOTHING to the investigators, and try to move on with your life. Eventually, you will either be charged with a crime or the investigation will be closed and your property returned to you. Yes it can take that long. You can buy another computer if you need one.

 

[justalayman]

swalsh411;3180965]No, calling a computer an "HP" when it is not an HP doesn't matter.

actually it can. It would depend on whether that is the only identifier used to address that specific computer. It could be meaningless but just the same, it could be fatal.

What will actually matter is what they find on the hard drive, which will be recorded into evidence as something like the "Seagate 300 gigabyte serial # 03456813".

Really?

and when asked how they obtained that evidence? It was found on what computer? You mean the one the OP never owned or possessed? Wow, did you pull that HDD off the evidence shelf at random and are now attempting to use the information contained against the defendant?

Sorry but they do have to associate that HDD with the computer they took from the OP. If they failed to identify the computer in such a manner it is not able to be disputed, then they cannot prove it came from the OP's computer.

 

[swalsh411]

actually it can. It would depend on whether that is the only identifier used to address that specific computer. It could be meaningless but just the same, it could be fatal.

Of course they need to be able to tie a specific hard drive to a specific computer and be able to show that any given suspect was the primary user. What I was saying is that a minor technicality in labeling the brand of the computer that was seized will not get somebody off the hook if all the other pieces fall into place.

Sorry but they do have to associate that HDD with the computer they took from the OP. If they failed to identify the computer in such a manner it is not able to be disputed, then they cannot prove it came from the OP's computer.

In all likelihood they won't need to ever prove anything in Court. In the vast majority of cases, the suspect accepts a plea. Only a very small percentage of executed search warrants lead to jury trials.

 

[justalayman]

swalsh411;3180982]Of course they need to be able to tie a specific hard drive to a specific computer and be able to show that any given suspect was the primary user. What I was saying is that a minor technicality in labeling the brand of the computer that was seized will not get somebody off the hook if all the other pieces fall into place.

and that is what I said as well. What the OP did present does give a reason the possibility of seeking a suppression of any evidence obtained from that computer should be considered though.

In all likelihood they won't need to ever prove anything in Court. In the vast majority of cases, the suspect accepts a plea. Only a very small percentage of executed search warrants lead to jury trials.

of course. If that happens, it doesn't matter what they called it but that wasn't the question.

 

[arleighesq]

I know what they are looking for but they couldnt verify nothing when the fbi computer guys was there. Im not sure what is on my hdd since i ran an automated server. But i guess only time will tell.

 

[swalsh411]

fserve on IRC? If so, you're screwed. The "I didn't know what kind of files were being traded" defense won't work.

 

[tranquility]

The process the federal government follows is here:
http://www.justice.gov/criminal/cybercrime/docs/ssmanual2009.pdf