Recording audio with a police officer

[azo313]

What is the name of your state? Michigan

Can I legally audio-record a police officer in Michigan, either during a traffic stop, or if approached by one somewhere in public?

[The Occultist]

Michigan is one of the states that does not allow the use of surreptitious recording, meaning that all parties must be aware of, and give consent to, the recording.

So, what have you been charged with?

[azo313]

No charges. However, this could be useful during a traffic stop or police encounter especially for someone who exercises second amendment rights and has encounters with ill-informed law enforcement.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by azo313

No charges. However, this could be useful during a traffic stop or police encounter especially for someone who exercises second amendment rights and has encounters with ill-enforced law enforcement.

Uh ... did you mean to say "someone who exercises [his] FIRST amendment rights"? Or do you frequently wave guns around on a traffic stop?

And did you mean to say "ill-INFORMED" law enforcement? Or do you consistently out gun them?

Just how often are you getting stopped? And you DO realize, of course, that attitude can often make the difference between a warning and a citation? Come off with an attitude, and you can almost guarantee that traffic ticket ... and maybe a few more violations that the officer might have otherwise ignored.

- Carl

[azo313]

No, I meant second amendment rights. Many police officers, and the general public are not aware that you can openly carry a non-concealed visible firearm on your person [Michigan and many other states] as long as you are not holding (brandishing) the firearm -- with no required license or permit, as long as the firearm is registered to you.

And yes, "ill-enforced" was a typo. I did mean "ill-informed." Sorry for the mistake.

There have been cases where officers actually detained and arrested law abiding citizens for carrying a firearm on their waist, even requesting a permit, which is not required by Michigan state law. In many of these cases, the law abiding citizens' constitutional rights were violated, hence my original question.

[azo313]

I believe the recording would be lawful. See this link:

[url]http://www.rcfp.org/taping/states/michigan.html[/url]

"Mich. Comp. Laws § 750.539c: A private conversation legally cannot be overheard or recorded without the consent of all participants. Illegal eavesdropping can be punished as a felony carrying a jail term of up to two years and a fine of up to $2,000.

...and that the overriding inquiry should be whether the parties "intended and reasonably expected that the conversation was private.

It is a felony to observe, photograph or eavesdrop on a person in a private place without the person's consent. Mich. Comp. Laws § 750.539d. A private place is a place where one may reasonably expect to be safe from intrusion or surveillance, but not a place where the public has access. Mich. Comp. Laws § 750.539a."

That sums it up to me. Nobody who knows anything about cops would ever think that a conversation with an on duty cop would reasonably be private. It's gonna be on the street in our case. Plus, they have damned microphones hooked up to their uniforms usually. And it's not eavesdropping on a conversation to talk to a cop who stops you.

[CdwJava]

Originally Posted by azo313

No, I meant second amendment rights. Many police officers, and the general public are not aware that you can openly carry a non-concealed visible firearm on your person [Michigan and many other states] as long as you are not holding (brandishing) the firearm -- with no required license or permit, as long as the firearm is registered to you.

I suspect that Michigan will allow its officers to detain and separate you from the firearm for their safety even when you are lawfully carrying. There are ample USSC decisions allowing for discretion by officers for safety reasons. So even if you are allowed to carry openly in your state, don't be surprised that officers might be uncomfortable upon contact - especially if you start lipping off to them. Once the contact is complete, and there is no legal bar to your possession, I suspect that you would get the weapon back. I live in an area where everyone hunts and where a good number of people have CCWs, but they tend to be cooperative, tell us about the weapons, and allow us to separate them from the weapon without a fuss until we are finished.

In many of these cases, the law abiding citizens' constitutional rights were violated, hence my original question.

And in how many of these cases did detentions result in a judgment against the officer?

I do not know the status of the law for audio taping officers in your state. I suspect that it is an arguable issue due to the "public" nature of the law enforcement contact, but I cannot guarantee it.