Right to Not Show Your Papers?

[CdwJava]

So if my state requires a detained person to produce good ID - and I choose not to produce it while being detained. Would that add to my initial infraction? Or just mean that they have to take me to the station to identify me before issuing it? And of course we have mentioned the rare circumstances where that could be resisting; but I am looking for a general answer.

It depends on the laws in your state. Refusal or failure to produce ID if required would likely be a separate offense. But, I can't really hypothesize in a hypothetical situation.

I can tell you how it is in MY state of CA ... here, a detained person need not ID himself. However, a person subject to arrest or citation is required to provide satisfactory identification. Failure to produce satisfactory identification could result in the suspect being taken in to physical custody until his identity can be confirmed and a citation then issued (if appropriate for the offense). I once found a wanted subject out of Michigan that way ... instead of releasing on a citation for petty shoplifting based upon verbal ID only, I took him in and found that his prints matched a wanted subject from Michigan (attempted murder with an axe, of all things).

- Carl

 

[mrgonzo]

I can tell you how it is in MY state of CA ... here, a detained person need not ID himself.

Are you referring to a detained person who is suspect in a crime or one who is innocent?

Because this is right back to what I was getting at, where I wouldn't mind showing ID for a ticket or arrest - but I do not like being detained (while doing something technically wrong) and showing it, then not receiving a citation.

 

[seniorjudge]

Are you referring to a detained person who is suspect in a crime or one who is innocent?

Because this is right back to what I was getting at, where I wouldn't mind showing ID for a ticket or arrest - but I do not like being detained (while doing something technically wrong) and showing it, then not receiving a citation.

You have been asking a bunch of hypothetical questions in this thread that no one could possibly answer.

Just remember this: It is constitutional for the cops to pick up anyone for any or no reason and keep them a certain amount of time ... 20-24 hours is usual ... and they do not have to charge them with anything.

As I told you before, if you refuse to identify yourself, then you could be charged with obstruction of justice or resisting arrest.

Anyway, I think it's time to shut down this thread.

 

[seniorjudge]

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[CdwJava]

Are you referring to a detained person who is suspect in a crime or one who is innocent?

I mean just that - detained. If he is to be arrested or issued a citation, good identification needs to be provided or the officer can take him in.

Because this is right back to what I was getting at, where I wouldn't mind showing ID for a ticket or arrest - but I do not like being detained (while doing something technically wrong) and showing it, then not receiving a citation.

In 21 states a detained person must present ID ... mine is one of the 39 where presenting ID at a detention is not required.

However, if involved in unlawful activity where the officer has discretion to arrest or not (like, trespassing), the officer may decide that your refusal is suspicious and opt to take enforcement action as opposed to a warning. if no ID was then produced, you could go to jail.

- Carl

 

[CdwJava]

I agree. The discussion has gone circular, and we are re-treading the same ground.

Hypotheticals are difficult to analyze because they tend to be lacking of sufficient details to make an entirely accurate assessment.

- Carl

 

[mrgonzo]

In 21 states a detained person must present ID ... mine is one of the 39 where presenting ID at a detention is not required.

However, if involved in unlawful activity where the officer has discretion to arrest or not (like, trespassing), the officer may decide that your refusal is suspicious and opt to take enforcement action as opposed to a warning. if no ID was then produced, you could go to jail.

Best answer yet, I understand now; I didn't mean for this post to go circular, I was just confused between the difference of detention vs arrest and your rights.

Thanks for the help!

 

[seniorjudge]

Best answer yet, I understand now; I didn't mean for this post to go circular, I was just confused between the difference of detention vs arrest and your rights.

Thanks for the help!

The supreme court has the same problem.

Basically, an arrest (from the French for the word for STOP) means you are not free to leave. That's detention.

The Miranda Rights have nothing to do with arrest; read the decision and you will see.