School Faculty Questioning Students

[thadius65]

I am from Pennsylvania and have a question regarding the questioning of students by School Faculty. Brief background on situation:

Son was at a party on a weekend which was also attended by the State Police later on in the night. No citations where given at the party, nor have they been received one week later. Potentially soon as they wrap up investigation. The legal side is still up in the air.

School Faculty over the past week has been pulling kids out of the hall and bringing them into a room with 3-4 Faculty (Super, Princ, Vice Princ and/or Athletic Director). So 3 or 4 adults on 1 student (ages 16-18). They were questioned about this activity that occured on the weekend and off-school property, not only about thier participation, but others as well.

After discussing with my son and others, it is pretty consistent that all felt intimidated as they were pressured to answer about others or themself. Having 3-4 male adults, 2 of which are known to be of a bullying nature, pushing for answers to incriminate them and others.

NONE had the option to contact parent and/or legal council, nor where they read any rights, nor knew of them. They were just plucked from the hallway and in questioning for 5-20 minutes. I realize Miranda is not neccessarily applicable, but isn't the activity that I describe at least improper if not illegal? Are our Schools not self contained investigators, police, judge and jury?

All this was done to determine who was to be suspended from various programs, groups and sports teams as part of their policy.

Question is, do I or other parents have any legal grounds in addressing this tribunal atmosphere with our kids?

Thanks for your time and input!

Thadius

 

[Indiana Filer]

All this was done to determine who was to be suspended from various programs, groups and sports teams as part of their policy.

Question is, do I or other parents have any legal grounds in addressing this tribunal atmosphere with our kids?

Thanks for your time and input!

Thadius

What does the school policy say about conduct in or out of school? For many school districts, a violation of their policies can prevent a student from participating in ANY extra-curricular activity. If your child wants to do extra-curriculars, he needs to obey the law in or out of school.

___________
Here's what the student athlete handbook for one of the school districts in my county says :

You are ineligible if (among other terms):

CONDUCT/CHARACTER: If you conduct yourself in or out of school in a way which reflects discredit on your school or the IHSAA.

In the section concerning substance use, our policy says this:

SUBSTANCE ABUSE: Confirmed violation
1) is a communication from the office of the Prosecuting Attorney indicating probable cause to support the filing of a criminal information or petition of delinquency alleging possession, transfer, or use of a controlled substance.

2) A voluntary admission involving possession, transfer, or use of a controlled substance by the student alleged to have violated this policy (see honesty clause) or

3) A finding by school personnel based upon observations and/or first-hand information that a student violated the Substance Abuse Policy.

 

[CdwJava]

You can complain to the school administration, the superintendent, or the school board.

Personally, I would rather appreciate their effort to try and keep the kids safe. When our local high school does something like that it is usually because certain students have allegedly violated the special conditions they agreed to when they agreed to participation in extra curricular activities (like members of the sports teams).

If you do not appreciate the effort or the way they went about investigating the incident, the proper procedure to complain would be to move up the administration food chain. If enough parents are angry, then something might be done to prevent future inquiries in this manner. However, I bet that if one of the kids at this party got hospitalized or died as a result of alcohol or drug consumption, or someone was killed or injured in a DUI as a result of the party, the complaining parents would be demanding that the school look into it because of the presence of so many high school kids. The school is in a no win position.

If you are looking for a lawsuit, I don't see it. If you want to tell your child to refuse to agree to speak with the administration when called in, you can do that. he might suffer suspension or some other penalty, but that's a risk he might run for exercising that right.

Now, as a parent, how do you feel that your son was at a party where this was going on? Being the parent of teenage boys, myself, this would be the last party they would be attending unless I dropped by to speak to the hosts prior to the party. But, that's me.

- Carl

 

[thadius65]

Appreciate the input.

This is by no means my way of getting the boy out of his suspension. The problem is the way it was handled with 3 or 4 on 1 and the intimidation during questioning. How can they do this without following a certain protocol? I could see it if we were talking about something that occured in the school and taking a more direct approach. I just thought this smacked of either improper or illegal activity on the School Faculties part?

Yes, I have been working on this boy since he was in 9th grade. Stopped it cold after first time I found out about drinking. Was good til about mid-way through 11th and again hit it hard with him by taking car away. There have been no driving issues due to that being a big part of lectures over the past many years. He has to deal with fines, loss of license, no football for 30days. Not looking to minimize that aspect, just pisses me off when that many adult men are pushing our boys around in school.

Thanks for the help.

 

[CdwJava]

This is by no means my way of getting the boy out of his suspension. The problem is the way it was handled with 3 or 4 on 1 and the intimidation during questioning. How can they do this without following a certain protocol?

Do they have a protocol to deal with it? If not, then they were not violating protocol, they were simply looking in to it as they could. Having those involved staffers on the panel may have been the easiest way of preventing multiple interviews. Could it be intimidating? Sure. And had this been a criminal case, that could certainly be argued. As it is a school administration looking at what is ostensibly a school issue, I am not sure that the panel will be a problem.

Now, if someone gets suspended or expelled, or kicked off a team, and their attorney wants to argue that the evidence was obtained by coercing a statement that was not true, that could be a different issue. Unless someone was convinced to provide a false statement as a result of the questioning, I don't know that there was any problem with it.

But, my caveat here is that I am from CA and my experience with these matters deals with CA law. There may be specific issues in PA law that make this improper,or, proper, on its face.

I could see it if we were talking about something that occured in the school and taking a more direct approach. I just thought this smacked of either improper or illegal activity on the School Faculties part?

It depends on whether the school can articulate a nexus. It is common in most places (even outside of my state) that the school has a vested interest in looking into activities off campus that come to their attention. They cannot just ignore this because it did not happen on campus. Unless there is a law preventing them form making this inquiry, they can probably do so.

I have seen schools castigated for failing to look into these matters. So, as I mentioned, the school is in a bad situation ... look into it and get complaints from some parents, ignore it and get some complaints from other parents. In smaller communities, that would result in cries of "favoritism" and "double standard." It's a tough situation for the school.

Yes, I have been working on this boy since he was in 9th grade. Stopped it cold after first time I found out about drinking. Was good til about mid-way through 11th and again hit it hard with him by taking car away. There have been no driving issues due to that being a big part of lectures over the past many years. He has to deal with fines, loss of license, no football for 30days. Not looking to minimize that aspect, just pisses me off when that many adult men are pushing our boys around in school.

Think of it as a life lesson. Bad - even, unlawful - behavior has consequences. If he thinks that the staff was intimidating, how would he have felt if he had to face a judge, a prosecutor, and some cops? Unless he was compelled to make false statements, this is his own doing and not that of the school administration. He does not have a right to be free from intimidation by authority figures.

Now, if enough parents agree that a four person panel was too intimidating, then maybe the school or district can establish a different protocol for investigating these matters. I suspect that it is not a frequent enough event for them to have spent any time developing a protocol for this sort of thing. But, maybe you can convince them to create a rule that says no more than 2 staff members should be present at an interview, or something like that.

The bottom line is that the most offensive part of all this involves the actions of the kids, not the actions of the administration.

I hope your son learns something from this, and I encourage you to keep towing the line. If he started drinking in the 98th grade, the chances of him becoming an alcoholic are higher than those who start later. Certainly not a guarantee, but it increases the odds. Hopefully he will learn from this and will earn your trust back through his positive actions.

One thing that works for me is I ask my oldest son (my 2nd son is 13, he doesn't go to those parties) if he wants me to drop him off. If I get a hem and a haw, and a comment that he is getting a ride, I ask WHO is driving, WHO is throwing the party, and how I can contact the parents or host of the party. When he mumbles, "Never mind ..." I know it's a party I don't want him at. When I am able to make the contacts, then I'm generally okay (because it is usually people I know).

Good luck.

- Carl

 

[thadius65]

What does the school policy say about conduct in or out of school? For many school districts, a violation of their policies can prevent a student from participating in ANY extra-curricular activity. If your child wants to do extra-curriculars, he needs to obey the law in or out of school.

___________
Here's what the student athlete handbook for one of the school districts in my county says :

You are ineligible if (among other terms):

CONDUCT/CHARACTER: If you conduct yourself in or out of school in a way which reflects discredit on your school or the IHSAA.

In the section concerning substance use, our policy says this:

SUBSTANCE ABUSE: Confirmed violation
1) is a communication from the office of the Prosecuting Attorney indicating probable cause to support the filing of a criminal information or petition of delinquency alleging possession, transfer, or use of a controlled substance.

2) A voluntary admission involving possession, transfer, or use of a controlled substance by the student alleged to have violated this policy (see honesty clause) or

3) A finding by school personnel based upon observations and/or first-hand information that a student violated the Substance Abuse Policy.

Ours states:

Any student, on the first offense, is observed or is known to have been drinking alcohol or using drugs by any school employee or others having authority in such matters shall be ineligible for participation for thirty (30) calendar days.

Kinda open ended...

 

[CdwJava]

Ours states:

Any student, on the first offense, is observed or is known to have been drinking alcohol or using drugs by any school employee or others having authority in such matters shall be ineligible for participation for thirty (30) calendar days.

Kinda open ended...

Yep. The "is known to have..." is pretty vague.

But, I gather there is really no challenge as to the facts, only the manner in which the interrogation was conducted, correct?

- Carl

 

[thadius65]

He has admission to guilt to state police, football coach and to the group of 4faculty. He took accountability for his actions and was the first to step forward. So no challenge other than the methods and tone used.

 

[CdwJava]

I think that the best that can be hoped for right now is that (a) the kids learn from this mistake, and, (b) no criminal charges are pursued.

- Carl