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Sunstorm

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? West Virginia

On Friday September 8 th, 2006 I left my work place for lunch at 9:00 P.M.
Around 9:30, returning from lunch I encountered a Police checkpoint at the entrance of my work place. I was in my mother's car. (Borrowed due to some mechanical problems with my personal vehicle).

When asked to provide my DL, Registration, and Proof of insurance, I was unable to provide proper registration. The tags were dead by 8 days, and unfortunately the insurance policy had lapsed. I knew the tags were dead, but due to both time and financial factors I had not renewed the tags for my mother. ( I do 99.9% of all of her errands for her). I was asked to pull over while they ran my licensce. After 30 minutes or so he came back with a citation for A: No Insurance (17D-2A-3 WV Code, 1931 As Amended). B: Reg. Card Not Carried (17A-3-13 WV Code, 1931 As Amended)

After I signed the Citation, I was asked to get out of the vehicle and then asked if I had anything illegal on me or in the car, and (being fully cooperative) I said "No, You're welcome to search" to which the Officer that issued the citation said somethng like " Oh, I'm going to, trust me." I was asked to turn around and was frisked. ( at the entrance of my work place mind you) As the Officer performed the "Search" on me I explained to him what it was he was feeling in my pockets in an effort to be as cooperative as possible. I also offered to empty my pockets as well. After the search on me, he searched my personal bag, and then finally my mother's car. Of course, the search turned up nothing. And It never was stated what he was searching for, or Why he felt a search was warranted. I am a white male, I live in a nice neighborhood, I have 4 kids, and I like to think I am a decent person. I know that he didn't smell alcohol, or marijuana on me. There were no open containers in the vehicle, and I purposely went out of my way to not appear as a threat to their safety, keeping my hands in plain view the entire time. The only thing I could even fathom I would be searched for is having long hair. Even though It is, IMHO, pretty suave. :p

After the search, I was told to leave the keys, and that I could walk back to work. They told me a wrecker had been called, so I left. However, they left my mother's car by the side of the road, unlocked, unattended, and with the keys in the front seat. Which the wrecker owner had no idea was there as he told me there were no keys in the vehicle when I went to gather a few personal things today.

Let me also explain that I DO have valid coverage on my personal vehicles, and was listed on my mother's Geico account when the policy was in effect, however, the Geico rep that I spoke to the night of the incident was not authorized to give me any information, nor was I allowed to handle any account business. The Rep did however explain to me that there was no problem issuing another policy if she would contact them.

One last bit of background information.... My hometown currently has one Officer that has recently been arrested for several different violations, with talk of a more wide spread investigation....and 12 years ago Officers of this town searched my mothers home, and her guests without a warrant, beating her severly in the process. They then tried to pressure her into signing a relase by pressing charges, which she was quiclky found not guilty of by a jury.

I am aware of the penalty for having no insurance on a vehicle, and I am prepared to pay for my infraction if the magistrate isn't willing to work with me.....however.....

Here are my questions:

1) Was my search legal? (If not, Why?)

2) What area of government is responsible for protecting me from this, if infact what happened was wrong?

3) Can I request resumes, or a list of training/qualifications for the officers of my home town? How should I do this?

4) I know that some Police agencies record stops on video and audio. Can I request copies of any recorded material that may have been taken?

4) If I personally did have a valid Auto policy in effect at the time of the stop, though not on the car I was driving, does that policy cover me in cars I drive as well?

Any help will, ofcourse, be appreciated. :eek: :D
 


You Are Guilty

Senior Member
Sunstorm said:
Here are my questions:
Great! Here are my answers:
Sunstorm said:
1) Was my search legal? (If not, Why?)
Yes. You consented to it, thus making it 100% legal.
Sunstorm said:
2) What area of government is responsible for protecting me from this, if infact what happened was wrong?
See response to #1.
Sunstorm said:
3) Can I request resumes, or a list of training/qualifications for the officers of my home town? How should I do this?
Can you? Absolutely! But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a reply.
Sunstorm said:
4) I know that some Police agencies record stops on video and audio. Can I request copies of any recorded material that may have been taken?
See response to #3.
Sunstorm said:
4) If I personally did have a valid Auto policy in effect at the time of the stop, though not on the car I was driving, does that policy cover me in cars I drive as well?
That depends on what your policy says. If it says you are, then, in all likelihood, you are. (Oh, and this is your second #4.)
Sunstorm said:
Any help will, ofcourse, be appreciated. :eek: :D
My bill is in the mail :eek:
 
T

thepizzaguy

Guest
You told them they could do the search. Tha makes it 100% legal. Police are like Vampires. If you invite them in... Remember that old flick "The Lost Boys"?;)

No charge:rolleyes:
 

Sunstorm

Junior Member
Thanks for the information. :)

I forgot to change the last question to a five before posting....I inserted the first question #4 after typing the post. Duh!:eek:

I don't ever expect to be searched again, but if I am, and the Officer is being a jerk, I may make it a little harder on him next time. Don't get me wrong though, I've had several friends and family who were/are officers, and I have respect for them. I'm just not the type of person to be bullied into anything.....especially when I'm right. (which I wasn't the other night....hence my full cooperation.)
 

cepe10

Member
freedom of information act request is the way to go to get his records...

You should probably not consent to the search. It's obvious the intent of the operation is to conduct searches without probable cause.

a letter to the governors office also works very well around here:) I see a lot of them myself and they are looked into.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
cepe10 said:
freedom of information act request is the way to go to get his records...
State law governs the release of personnel records and not the federal FOIA. Many (most?) states would make the officer's training records a personnel record not subject to disclosure on a whim. Without a legal action and a request through the court, it is doubtful that he could obtain that information unless WV law permits its release on request ... and I doubt that.

- Carl
 

xylene

Senior Member
I don't get it.

A. You consented to the search. So it doesn't matter.

B. Nothing happened as a result of the search.

Being pist off at some cops ego trip is not a crime agains you that you can get any redress for except to vote for political candidates who want to slash po-po's budget.

So my message is ... SHOULDA VOTED NADER!

And next time one of those PBA sticker scam people call... hang up really forcefully.
 
T

thepizzaguy

Guest
xylene said:
A. You consented to the search. So it doesn't matter.

B. Nothing happened as a result of the search.

Being pist off at some cops ego trip is not a crime agains you that you can get any redress for except to vote for political candidates who want to slash po-po's budget.

So my message is ... SHOULDA VOTED NADER!

And next time one of those PBA sticker scam people call... hang up really forcefully.

candidates who want to slash po-po's budget.


lol:eek:
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
I don't recall Nader running on a platform of reducing police budgets. I guess I missed that one. But, then, most of us missed whatever it was he WAS running on.


- Carl
 

xylene

Senior Member
CdwJava said:
I don't recall Nader running on a platform of reducing police budgets. I guess I missed that one. But, then, most of us missed whatever it was he WAS running on.


- Carl
I wan't issuing an endorsement of Nader as a solution to the man's problems.

I was only pointing out that there isn't much to do about them, retroactively or otherwise.
 

Sunstorm

Junior Member
To update the situation:

1) I contacted the agent that I have my personal vehicles insured through. I AM/WAS covered even though I was not in my vehicle. So I see little that could happen to me in court.

2) I don't vote....it implies my consent to be governed. :p

3) In the past, my hometown has hired people with little or no experience in law enforcement. The Officer that I am referring to was merely a security guard at our local Pancake House until recently, and I'm unsure of whether he's been through proper training at our state's Police Academy. I neither wish to have any budget cut, nor do I harbor ill feelings toward the people in my town who are paid mimimum wage to put their life on the line to protect our city. What I do have a problem with is people who gain a little power, and suddeny become tyrants. I'm not going to quote Thomas Jefferson, but I am strictly opposed to absolutism.

I now have permission to handle my mother's Geico account, so I will be 100% legal in the future, and will oppose any whimsical search of my personal property, regardless of the consequences.. Believe that. ;)
 

justalayman

Senior Member
1) I contacted the agent that I have my personal vehicles insured through. I AM/WAS covered even though I was not in my vehicle. So I see little that could happen to me in court.
You still have that "no registration" situation to deal with though.



2) I don't vote....it implies my consent to be governed. :p
That is like letting a guy smack you in the nose continually and refuse to defend yourself because you are a pacifist. If you have the opportunity to effect change and refuse to do so, you are foolish. Preventing somebody from beating the hell out of you does not imply you like to fight. It proves you are man enough to stand up for your rights, the same as voting does. Having a drivers license, car registration, insurance because it is required, getting out of the car when the officer asked, follow any law, etc., etc., all DO imply your consent to be governed.

Since you already have consented to be governed by your actions, it is foolish to refuse utilize one of the methods available to steer that governance.

I'm not going to quote Thomas Jefferson, but I am strictly opposed to absolutism.
as all peoples that enjoy a democracy should. Unless one is a masochist, I see no reason to accept absolutism.

I now have permission to handle my mother's Geico account, so I will be 100% legal in the future, and will oppose any whimsical search of my personal property, regardless of the consequences.. Believe that. ;)
There is a difference between a "whimsical" search and a legally enforcable right and correctness to search your property. Attempting to refuse to allow a justified search is just plain dumb. They are going to get to search anyway. Whether you go to jail or not (presuming there is no other reason to arrest you) is the difference between allowing a legal search and attempting to dissallow it. Just educate yourself as to what is and what isn't a legal justifcation for the police to search you/ your property.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Sunstorm said:
1) I contacted the agent that I have my personal vehicles insured through. I AM/WAS covered even though I was not in my vehicle. So I see little that could happen to me in court.
Unless the violation is simply for not providing said proof of insurance when required ... in which case, you'd still be dinged.

2) I don't vote....it implies my consent to be governed.
Voting or not, you will be governed. So, you might as well at least have a say in it.

3) In the past, my hometown has hired people with little or no experience in law enforcement.
Where do you think they GET that experience? Cops aren't raised from little pods in the soil, and it takes about two years before an officer is up and running at an adequate level.

The Officer that I am referring to was merely a security guard at our local Pancake House until recently, and I'm unsure of whether he's been through proper training at our state's Police Academy.
He had to meet whatever minimum standards WV sets for peace officers. It might be that they put him out on the street with no real experience or training, but that would be a foolish decision by management.

In my state an officer has to complete the approved training program prior to being released on his own and he must complete the academy within a year of appointment. However, I know of only one agency in CA that allowed officers to hit the field before the academy (but after field training), and that agency was dissolved more than 10 years ago.

What I do have a problem with is people who gain a little power, and suddeny become tyrants.
How was he being tyrannical? Your tags were expired and he towed the car (presumably)pursuant to state law. Such a tow would also permit the search of the vehicle. And you gave consent to search the car, so no foul there.

I now have permission to handle my mother's Geico account, so I will be 100% legal in the future, and will oppose any whimsical search of my personal property, regardless of the consequences.
Well, if it is a situation such as a vehicle impound, you won't have the option of declining a search of the vehicle. And an officer can always do a pat-down for weapons with minimal cause. So, before you decide to dig your heels in the ground and get a resisting charge, you might consider simply loudly and repeatedly voicing your objects and not resisting any such search.


- Carl
 

Sunstorm

Junior Member
Update #2

Apparently I have friends in higher places than I thought.

The Mayor is going to have the charges dropped because I have since corrected the problem. :cool:

As for the voting comment, that was an old George Carlin skit. Wasn't meant to be taken seriously.....hence the :p Emoticon.
 

cepe10

Member
CdwJava said:
State law governs the release of personnel records and not the federal FOIA. Many (most?) states would make the officer's training records a personnel record not subject to disclosure on a whim. Without a legal action and a request through the court, it is doubtful that he could obtain that information unless WV law permits its release on request ... and I doubt that.

- Carl
In MD they can only hide the training and testing records for government employees if it is somehow against the "public interest" to divulge them. I would think WV is about the same.
 

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